Borderlands 2 about Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode game balance

JohnYang · October 10, 2015, 6:39pm

all enemies HP regenerate too fast!! only few characters in BL2 can beat these super tough enemies(like Gunzerker), others are too weak and too difficult to defeat them(like mechromancer and commando), did you developers really test it yourself?

i tell you what, in this mode(the quest that advance to overpower 8). i met a elite robot tank, i fighted it until out of ammo and it still full HP, in the process i died many times because i can’t survived if i got its’ shot 2 times(i played mechromancer, my robot complete useless in this fight because my robot’s damage power is too weak for this enemy and i dunno why it keeps shot it by laser beam not more powerful melee attack… this AI is really suck unless you developers fix it’s power of laser beam)!!
another point is all player characters’ summoning creature have too low HP for any enemy of Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode.
when they got hit always can’t stand long enough for it’s master’s counter attack. they almost died in any battle before the timelimit arrived.

another multiplay RPG “Icewind Dale II(D&D PC game)”, it has a familar mode called “Heart of Fury Mode”. player’s characters got hit by enemies in this mode, it will take double damage and all enemies almost have 100% chance to hit your characters. BUT, your summoned creatures have completely equal power to your enemies, they got normal damage from enemies not double, and they can also 100% hit enemies, this greatly give players to survive in Heart of Fury Mode.
so i completely can’t understand why you developers so like to nerf players summon skill in Borderlands 2 even made them overweak to other characters?

i am sorry, i can’t see what balance is it in this way.
that is why i abandom UVHM and quit this game so fast.

if you remove or great nerf enemies’ HP regenerate rate in UVHM, making other OverWeak characters can survive in this mode by players’ fighting technique(not character’s), i can accept. but you know this is not the best way to fix this problem.

MidnightNova · October 10, 2015, 6:48pm

Every character works jsut fine on UVHM, and just as so on OP8 if you know their strengths and weaknesses.

Gulfwulf · October 10, 2015, 6:48pm

Exactly. I do just fine with a “weak” Maya on OP 8, both by myself and with others.

Maveco · October 10, 2015, 6:50pm

Remember that the game does not force you to play uvhm, your problem resides between your chair and your controller/keyboard… Give a look at each characters’ subforum, there is plenty of information on how to make the most out of uvhm and op levels.

Blutfatal · October 10, 2015, 7:03pm

We’ve heard this thousands of times.
Theres a reason why we started doing guides, top gear and the DDD series is designed for OP8 gameplay, you’d wreck everything below that with them.

Use a flakker on those robots, they will get demolished fast on op8 even.

MOLMF · October 10, 2015, 7:43pm

UVHM is balanced, save for DOT on player.

Poisd2Strike · October 10, 2015, 8:01pm

All characters can do fine in UVHM and even the OP levels. What is your current Build for your Mecromancer? You can go here, fill in your build and get a URL that you could post in this thread. That would allow us to give you some advice about improving your Mecromancer’s build. Also, what equipment are you using for your Mecromancer (Weapons, Shield, Relic, Class mod, Grenade mod) and is it “at level” (meaning equal to your current level) ? Most equipment, generally speaking, lasts 3 - 5 levels before it should probably be replaced. Some of the better equipment can last a bit longer.

Are you applying Slag to your targets whenever possible? In UVHM, a Slagged target takes 3x normal damage. That helps you kill things faster. Also, are you using the appropriate element against enemies (Fire against Flesh, Shock against Shielded foes and then either Fire or Corrosive when the Shield is gone, and Corrosive against Armored foes)?

As far as Gaige’s skills go, The Stare (aka Laser) is not very good and you should probably not use it. However, some other skills such as Sharing is Caring (give Deathtrap a copy of your shield and then ideally use a Roid shield) and Make it Sparkle (shoot Deathtrap and his Melee attacks takes on element you shot him with) could help improve Deathtrap’s survivability and damage. Also, Made of Sterner Stuff and Strength of Five Gorillas can both help improve Deathtrap’s melee damage. Those are just some examples. Without knowing your current Mecromancer Build and equipment, it is somewhat difficult to give beneficial advice that would make playing UVHM less frustrating for you.

Blutfatal · October 10, 2015, 8:25pm

Slag helps(a lot) but its not 100% needed.
More like 60%

Derch · October 10, 2015, 8:37pm

I’ll type up a better response in a little bit, I’m in the middle of something now but for the mean time here is my op8 Maya build tearing through the entire story mode with no issues.

anon13808724 · October 10, 2015, 8:41pm

And here we go again… Balancing in UVHM is fine. It works as it was designed to work. It’s hard mode. It’s supposed to be hard, but it really isn’t that hard. It’s actually pretty damn easy once you get the hang of it. Health regen on enemies isn’t an issue at all if you know what you’re doing. It really isn’t that fast and I hardly ever notice it. Every single class is perfectly capable of doing it, as long as you understand what they can do, work on your build, make use of the game’s mechanics and strategize. You need to understand the character’s skills and what type of weapons work best with the setup you’re running. You need to play smart. Every class is different, each has its own playstyle, strengths and weaknesses. You can’t play all of them the same way. If your playstyle consists of jumping headfirst into battle with a poor build, no strategy and just standing there spraying enemies with bullets hoping they die, you’re gonna get slaughtered. UVHM, as a third playthrough, assumes that you played the game enough to understand its mechanics and the class you’re using. UVHM is for players who are willing to get better at the game and improve their playstyle. Yes, the spike in difficulty is quite shocking the first time you enter it, but if you keep at it, do a little research and make an effort to improve, you’ll soon find out that it isn’t as difficult as it seems at first. By the end of it, it will feel like normal mode again. This forum is filled to the brim with guides, tips and advice. Just look around a little. Go into the class specific sub-forums. There are whole threads focused on tips to survive UVHM. You can even share your build/loadout and I’m sure a lot of people here will be happy to help you improve them and make them work. That’s certainly a better way to spend your time around here than just rant about UVHM being too hard. Here’s a few general tips that might help you out:

Use slag. Seriously, slag everything. There’s a reason the game tells you to do so when you start UVHM. Some characters have passive slagging mechanisms in their skills. Invest in them. Use slag grenades or swap between slag and regular weapons when they don’t. Once you improve your build, loadout and skills as a player this will become less important, but if you’re just starting out in UVHM, it will make a huge difference.
Always match elements to enemy weakness. Fire for flesh. Corrosion for armor. Shock for shields.
Prioritize strong, dangerous enemies. Focus on a single target until it is dead, then move on to others. This will help making the enemy health regen a non-issue.
Never stop moving. Break line of sight. Use cover. Be aware of your surroundings, what enemies are doing and your shield/health. Be aware of when you’re about to go down. Sometimes it’s better to take a knee on purpose with an easy second wind in sight than going into FFYL with no enemies around. Place yourself properly and think before firing.
Use grenades as strategy tools rather than just damage dealers. Know the right moment to throw a grenade. Singularity grenades are great for crowd control and transfusions can help keep you alive. A slag transfusion will heal you and slag enemies.
Try to keep all of your gear on level. A legendary that’s 5 levels below you is no longer a legendary.
The most important tip of all: KNOW YOUR CHARACTER. Understand his/her strengths and weaknesses. Know what they can/can’t do and what weapons are better for them. Understand what each of their skills do, work on your build looking to improve synergy between the skills. Don’t just take all of the damage skills while ignoring survival and don’t take skills just because you think they sound cool. Similarly, there’s more to a gun than damage and there’s more to a shield than its capacity. Think about how well your gear works with your build to get the best out of it.

rush86 · October 10, 2015, 9:05pm

In my own opinion at op 0 I think uvhm is balanced just fine. You just have to use more synergy between your chracters and the gear. Every character has certain strengths with certain weapons. But even without that i think its just like tvhm just a little harder.

bammbamm808 · October 11, 2015, 1:54am

Game is fine learn to play it or don’t. These forums can help if you decide to continue. BTW I just kilt terra solo and farmed my first norfleet legit off vermi. Game is great. First cool your head then use it to think.

JohnYang · October 11, 2015, 10:06am

if you heard this over thousands times, that means this need to be change, if you didn’t notice it then i think that is your problem in understanding player’s feeling.
it’s balance problem is not only enemy robots in UVHM, include all enemies.
every enemy has super high HP and super horrible HP generation rate and super high attack damage in UVHM.
and yes, players can just to avoid this god damn mode, but only this mode allow characters to level up to max level and OP level. this is the reason TO FORCE players to accept this mode unless they don’t want to gain more exp to level up their characters.
if you really respect player’s free will, then you should change your setup, allow player to select which difficulty mode and loot treatures and gain experience. all difficulty mode has high level enemies to wait players to challenge(with fewer rate to appear better items and lower exps). not only TVHM and UVHM spawn higher level enemies…

final suggestion:
enemy respawn too fast, it only to harass player, it can’t give player more fun to enjoy this game, this is not ONLINE game so you don’t need to consider about other players how to gain exps and equips. if host player think they need to respawn enemies and chests then they can just re-open their game like “Diablo 2” this is not a problem so difficult.

of course, you can insist your game design, all i can do is just ignore your games continue, at least i can do this.

Blutfatal · October 11, 2015, 4:22pm

Or you know you can read the guides and stop assuming things.

Gulfwulf · October 11, 2015, 4:31pm

No it doesn’t. Your opinion is shared by a minority, a vocal one to be sure, but still a minority of the player base. If the majority shared it, then we wouldn’t have the Over Powered levels which make the game much harder because the enemies will level up to (and past in some instances) 80, while the player is stuck at 72.

You already have this option. You can ignore anything after Normal Vault Hunter Mode if you wish, but the enemies won’t level up and your level progression will be very slow. You can do the same thing with True. And with the OP levels: you can either ignore them completely or stick at a particular one. Once you’ve finished the game and the DLCs in Normal, there’s only the challenge left in True and Ultimate. The question is whether or not you wish to partake of that challenge. If you don’t, then that’s your decision, but it’s not going to be changed simply because a vocal few feel that it’s too difficult for them.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here but the higher difficulties do have a chance to drop better gear.

Yes it is; at least it has an online component. Whether or not you partake in said component is your decision.

UVHM isn’t for everybody, but don’t expect GBX to change its design simply because you disagree with it. You’re more than welcome to express your opinion about it here, but don’t expect to not receive any feedback when you do. As I said before, there’s a reason UVHM operates the way it does and why GBX introduced the OP levels: they were because the majority of folks who gave them feedback requested a tougher challenge, not because said majority requested an easier challenge.

It’s a shame you don’t like the extra challenge, but what you’ve posted so far has been just your opinion and game companies generally don’t make design decisions based solely on opinions. The smart ones look at what their customers want and try to accommodate them, which is what GBX has done with BL 2.

Blut’s not a developer, but a fan like the rest of us. As for your post, all I can say is enjoy whatever else you decide to play instead because we’ll still be enjoying our regenerating enemies and difficult gameplay.

Mally_T · October 11, 2015, 4:43pm

Hi JohnYang…I am sorry to say but your misconceptions towards UVHM are distracting you from enjoying this superb game. Yes I found it hard when I first reached UVHM, but with help from the guys on these forums and watching some excellent gameplays on YouTube I began to learn and understand my characters. I have only been gaming for two years and I am 60 years old. Borderlands2 is a fantastic game with many challenges, and I get a real buzz from improving my game and learning something new every day. Trust and listen to the guys on this forum because they are brilliant, and have helped me progress to a better player.

anon13808724 · October 11, 2015, 5:32pm

It makes perfect sense to me that if you want your character to have a higher level you’ll need to face a greater challenge and improve your gameplay to get it. You want a character at level cap? You gotta be a badass and know how to play the game. Are you satisfied with the challenge from TVHM? That’s fine. You can stay there if you want, but your character will stay at level 50. That actually sounds pretty fair to me. I’m satisfied with the UVHM challenge for now and I stayed there. I never tried obtaining the OP levels and that was my choice, so you do have a choice. I might try them someday if I ever want a greater challenge, and that’s also going to be my choice. If you think UVHM is that hard, you’re in for a rude awakening if you ever get to try the OP levels, considering your character actually stays at level 72 and only the enemies level up. High levels aren’t free for all, man. They shouldn’t be. If you want to reach the higher levels you gotta work for them. If you could reach the level cap in normal mode what would be the point? It wouldn’t mean anything.

Really, dude… UVHM isn’t that hard. All you need to do to beat it is improve your skills as a player and understand your character. The solution to all of your difficulty issues is right there in the game and you’re lucky that a lot of people have taken the time to share that valuable information in this forum. All the information you need is out there. You can’t change the balancing in the game to fit your wants but the balancing of your character is under your control. The problem here isn’t that UVHM is poorly balanced, but that your character might be… And that’s entirely on you. So stop complaining the game doesn’t reward you for doing nothing and take the time to actually improve your character and your skills as a player. That way, you’ll earn that level cap. Is that really too much to ask? Once again, it isn’t that hard. Seriously.

Blutfatal · October 11, 2015, 6:46pm

But I am a developer… Just not for gearbox.

You heard it here someone thinks im a gbx dev, now give me a job.

steamnixtest · October 12, 2015, 4:09pm

UVHM was very hard for me at first. Very hard. Then I did some research and saw many suggested things that I wasn’t doing. The more of them I did, the more fun it became. This includes gear, tactics and having different expectations. At first the enemy regen was problem for me. I don’t even notice it now.

Part of the problem is that UVHM is so very different than TVHM. People, including me get caught off guard.

The two biggest things I did that helped were to take my time and work through areas more carefully, and to farm and grind for the best gear I could get.

Oh yeah, and slag everything.

NetherTraitor258 · October 12, 2015, 5:05pm

1: Play as Krieg on OP8 using Silence the Voices while bereft of a shield.

2: Go to The Dust and try to kill every enemy vehicle and buzzard using a Technical without the Bee Shield.

3: Go to the Captain Scarlet DLC and try to kill 10 sand worms by running them over via Sand Skiff without exploding on level 72 let alone OP8.

4: Play as Axton without a Roid shield and try to melee a Psycho to death on level 72.

5: Try to Slag a Slagged Badass Skag, Slagged Psycho, Slagged Spiderant, Slagged Thresher and Saturn.

6: Try to Watch Savage Lee kill a Bullymong or vice versa on OP8.

It has more problems than just DoT.