Who is Krieg? And what happened to him? Spoilers

Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel BL:TPS Discussion
#1

I want to find some informations and share what I might found about Krieg’s back story.

At first here are a lot of his line that might be relevant, I found them on the [wikia][1]:
Idle:

  • Where is she? Is she still alive? Did she get away?
  • (If you ever kill an innocent person, I will destroy us.) Shut UP!!
    (No. That’s the deal. You can kill as many of the deserving as you like, but the second your axe touches the flesh of an innocent, I’ll end this. All of it. A razor to the veins, just like that fugitive we tried to grab on Hera, remember?) Nnnnngh, get out of my head!! (…I’ll take that as a ‘yes.’)

While Raving Retribution is active:

  • I’ll never forget the way her holes cried… The way she screamed in
    agony as she pushed the knife slowly into my sternum… Such a
    beautiful symphony of feelings, and at the end of it, she was so much
    greater! My operatic diva of flesh and steel!!
  • You’re gonna scream, just like she did; open mouth, open heart, blood
    and noise forever piercing my skull, poisoning me with its
    psychopathic purple liquid. We watched it all, and felt the knife
    edge split down the middle… CAN YOU HEAR ME?!
  • I can’t see her anymore… She was so clear and bright… but the
    blood is in my eyes, and now I can only watch the ocean of
    blood…Its waves crash against my forehead again and again, AND I
    JUST NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SURF!!
  • This is my favorite song! Dance to the drum beat of the ballistic,
    fetishistic, sadistic piss-stick! Let the bullets scrape me clean and
    never, ever, ever flash a sassy eye at the good doctor!

when finding his Assassin:

HE WAS THERE FOR THE BIRTHING! HE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE METAL FUN PALACE SO SHE COULD START THE PARTY!

Krieg is saying “she” like there were only one person he could mean, but sometimes she inflicts pain on him and in other scenarios she receives pain from someone. That seems confusing, but if we consider the [conversations][2] between doctor Samuels and Jack, it seems plausible that Jack makes doctor Samuels a test subject for having sympathy for the test subject and questioning him:
Echo 1:

Handsome Jack: “Okie-dokie, Sammy, let’s say we start that test?”
Doctor Samuels: “It’s ‘Doctor Samuels’. The test subject is still conscious. You can’t expect me to–”
Handsome Jack: “Sorry baby. I can’t hear you over the sound of people not being injected with Eridium right now. This Vault Key didn’t make Eridium come outta the ground for nothing right? So, we’ve got it - might as well do some good with it! You’re not eager to be on the other side of that glass, are you sweetheart?”
Doctor Samuels: “…Commencing Eridium mutation test on subject number two. Subject: Erik Franks.”

Echo 2:

[…]
Doctor Samuels: “Don’t call me --This subject is… unsuitable for testing. His husband has the Shivers. He could have transmitted–”
Handsome Jack: “Hey, remember that wife of yours? And how you wanted to see her, like, ever again?”
[…]

It makes perfect sense that doctor Samuels is “she”. It also explains the message Krieg got from Sir Hammerlock:
SALUTATIONS PSYCHO MAN I’M SORRY AS A SLICE WOUND SINCERELY SAMMY.
My theory is that doctor Samuels injected him with slag and did other things to him while still showing mercy. Then she was turned into a test subject, she and Krieg became Psycho-friends and were separate when they tried to escape.

Other lines from Krieg reveal that he thinks Pain is friendship/love, that explains why he still likes her even though she inflected pain on him. Doctor Samuels never wanted to perform experiments on conscious test subjects, she has empathy, but because this otherwise friendly person had to torture him Krieg’s mind established a connect between pain with friendship.

  • Hurt the one you love! Do it!
  • Friendship is pain.
  • Shoot me 'til you love me!
  • Friendship is hate!

When Moxxi asked him if he is had someone in his life he replied:
“THE TINY ONE AND THE SAD-FACED MOTHER AND THE BLUE TATTOO FOREVER AND EVER!”
I am guess that the TINY ONE is Tiny Tina, the BlUE TATTOO is probably Maya since he notes her blue tattoos when he sees her for the first time.
[1]: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Krieg/Quotes
[2]: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor’s_Orders

#2

after the 500 or so discussions on this, we still have nothing more than conjecture. Against all evidence pointing to krieg being tina’s father, gbx says no.

#3

What evidence ? That both were in a Hyperion facility once? That might be a hint, but that is never an evidence.
The biggest evidence against this theory is simply the lack of supporting evidence.
Kriegs remembers some stuff about his time as a test subject but he doesn’t mention a child. Think about how many clues there were if Krieg were her father.
Image I suspected there had been a car accident at midnight, but there is no evidence and no one heard something. It might be possible that no one reported it and that everyone was sleeping tight, but the lack of evidence and witnesses is a sign that there were no car accident at all.

#4

the circumstantial evidence all points to it for me.

#5

And what is “all” ? There isn’t much beside the fact that both were in a Hyperion facility once.

And how do you explain the lack of evidence?
Doctor Samuels arranged the death of Krieg’s assassin in Sir Hammerlock vs. the Son of Crawmerax, but didn’t bother to tell him he had a daughter, how do you explain that?

#6
  1. the fact that they were in a hyperion facility,
  2. tina’s mom giving her a grenade, one of krieg’s strongpoints
  3. tina being every bit as psycho as krieg,
  4. the picture in tina’s trailer of a man with one red eye and an eyepatch, the same eye covered as krieg
  5. Dr. samuels was the one to experiment on tina’s parents, subjects 524 and 525, with slag mutation
  6. contact with a vault key is what caused the headstone miners in BL to go insane in the first place. The purple glow in the key sure ain’t amethyst…
  7. krieg’s inner voice still searching for her and wondering if she got away.
  8. his innate protection of the innocent.
  9. when asked if he ever loved anyone, he specifically states the tiny one and the sad faced mother sad faced because she had to watch tina escape.
  10. there is no evidence her parents are dead, just the sound of them being experimented on and flesh stick’s word.
  11. “your gonna scream just like she did” - tina’s mom being experimented on
  12. "I can’t see her anymore… She was so clear and bright…he can’t remember tina, the experimentation literally broke his mind in two.
  13. the dominant psycho of his mind is actually a coping device to protect himself when he snapped from the pain and loss
  14. I’m beginning to remember…) Stop it, keep the memories down with a knife in its throat, slash it until it bleeds thought juice across the dirt and it’s absorbed into nothingness…"

Any Questions?

#7

2 Many characters have skills that involve grenades
3 Being a psycho is quite common on Pandora.
4.his eye is just covered, that doesn’t mean he is blind on one eye. Tell me if she can remember her father why doesn’t she realize that he is her father?
6 Krieg can’t remember anything from the time when he was sane, so how could he remember his daughter, which escaped right after arriving? And how can he be concerned about her if he doesn’t remember her? He doesn’t even mention that he has a daughter, why?
9 Krieg also likes Maya even though he meet her after his escape.
10 They being alive would create more evidence than their deaths, so the lack of clear evidence is a sign that they are death.
12 If his mind broke in two why can’t at least one part of him remember her?
14 If his violent personality suppresses his memories of Tina and her mother, why does this personality complain that he can’t see her?
"I can’t see her anymore… She was so clear and bright… but the blood is in my eyes, and now I can only watch the ocean of blood… Its waves crash against my forehead again and again, AND I JUST NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SURF!! "

Doctor Samuels arranged the death of Krieg’s assassin in Sir Hammerlock vs. the Son of Crawmerax, but didn’t bother to tell him he had a daughter, how do you explain that?

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#8

many dont have more than one.
psycho’s multiplied. genetic insanity?
she doesn’t know him as krieg, the huge hulking psycho.
who said it was right after arriving?
subconscious mind, and he does start to remember, the psycho pushes it back down.
the psycho pushes it down because its painful to the psycho to remember, which is exacerbated by the fact that his mind is so broken he can’t even remember her face. its a vicious cycle.
why would she? she was obviously was subjected to the same slag experiments he was, given the wording of the echo.

#9

Handome Jack was always a douche even before his wife was killed by angel gaddamit!

I don’t care if they didn’t for sure say that she died!

I’m pretty sure she disappeared BEFORE Angel was put in the chair NOT after THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!

Oops sorry wrong plot argument/rant/tyraid based on like 100 words of vague in game dialogue…

#10

So he can remember details of his torture, like a knife in his sternum, but not the face of his daughter because that causes pain?
If his violent personality suppresses his memories of Tina and her mother, why does this personality complain that he can’t see her?
"I can’t see her anymore… She was so clear and bright… but the blood is in my eyes, and now I can only watch the ocean of blood… Its waves crash against my forehead again and again, AND I JUST NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SURF!! "

Tina escaped before they performed slag experiments on her and then she developed her obsession for explosives. Do you suspect that Tina’s first attempt to escaped failed, she survived torture and then escaped?
And does she remember the guy who sold her parents, but not her parents?

#11

different kinds of pain.
thats the point of repression. to push it down so far you can’t remember it. he does it because he has to, otherwise the grief would overwhelm him.
she watched her parents get experimented on. that counts as torture by anyone’s standard.
of course she wouldn’t remember him, not after he’s mutated.

#12

This whole Krieg is Tina’s dad theory is stirred ■■■■. They were simply two mentally ill characters who were in a Hyperion facility and people went nuts about it.
If you search long enough you find “evidence” for almost anything and come up with explanations for the trillion of reasons against it.

And why can he remember the screaming of his wife, but not the face of his daughter or that he even has a daughter?

It makes much more sense that Tina escaped shortly after arriving when she use the grenade.

Pandora is simply a nightmare of a planet where either anarchy or vicious dictators rule. It is not a place known for heart warming family reunions, get used to it! The best you can hope for is that one finds a new family among the other survivors of this nightmare.

There would be so many things could remove all doubts like Krieg recognizing her for a brief moment. Or Krieg rambling something about a girl in a dress. Or Angel telling him because she has access to Hyperion files. The VH seem to like Tina, so why does no one asked her about what happened, because traumas don’t heal from ignoring them. Or doctor Samuels could tell him that his daughter is still alive.
There is nothing that sets this connection between Tina and Krieg up.

They are just two lunatics on a planet full of lunatics, that were also two of many many victims of Jacks cruelty.

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#13

I think the reason why there’s so much conjecture on Krieg’s back story is because GBX never really fleshed it out like they did the other VHs. Unlike the other five VHs, we have no echo logs of Krieg’s past, all we know for sure is that he was experimented on by Jack and somehow managed to free himself. Afterwards he met Maya while she was getting ready to board the train and followed her after she saved his life. Anything outside of that is pure conjecture.

By the way, Birch has stated before in an inside the box article that both of Tina’s parents were killed and that’s why she is the way she is. Tina is Birch’s creation, so I’ll believe him before i believe anybody else who isn’t affiliated with GBX.

#14

I think we also don’t have much about the others, but his back story involves mysteries, that simply makes us want more.

#15

i know this is all conjecture, thats why its fun. And @Gulfwulf, are you REALLY going to take Burch’s word? it wasn’t stated in game, therefore it isn’t canon.

#16

It it canon, what the devs state override everything else.

#17

There’s been some really stupid stuff said by the devs that ended up getting overwritten in gameplay. New-U may-not-sometimes-maybe-is-isn’t-on tuesdays-occaisionally canon when it’s convenient for them. The best plot relevent stuff I trust is the Tales series right now. I’d also trust stuff actually in the game more than whatever the latest insecure burch twitter rant brings to light.

#18

http://pre08.deviantart.net/be37/th/pre/f/2014/293/0/a/borderlands__the_pre_sequel___wilhelm_obama_poster_by_sedinus-d83inpl.png

2 Likes
#19

New-U is simply not cannon, We need them for game play, but the story would be ■■■■■■■■ with them Period
New-U is as cannon as respawning in most games.

#20

It’s not simple when they’ve gone back and forth on it for like the duration of the series. I’m just saying that these plot intricacies that aren’t really fleshed out have no difinitive answer unless that answer is directly addressed in game.

Things like we for sure know Roland’s fate, but Tina’s Parents? Jacks Wife? Axton’s Wife? My issue with your statements there is your taking things as fact when they’re isn’t proof, and then dismissing things that are actually are in the game.