Maliwan pistols and grenade damage

Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel BL: TPS Gameplay Discussion (Spoilers!)
#1

Maliwan pistols have splashed damage, so boosted by grenade damage.
The question is which one:
Aegis, torment or animosity?
Luneshine or glitched?
For jack glitched one but which barrel?
For claptrap luneshine due to OLT? Which barrel? Do CC and LnS affect the pistol’s splashed damage?
Any suggestions are appreciated.

#2

This isn’t always true.

I personally like Maliwan barrel because it has extra damage without the fire rate penalty that Torgue/Jakobs have.

For glitches,yellow is king in most cases.

#3

Little correction: the Torgue barrel doesn’t come with a fire rate penalty but an accuracy one. You are right about the Jakobs barrel. IMO, the Torgue barrel is the best on Maliwan pistols for any application that doesn’t depend on effect chance (like for a BL2 slag gun where the chance to slag is much more important than the damage)

Maliwan pistols do get the grenade damage bonus, but it’s true that not all splash damage gets the bonus, so the question was valid. :smile:

#4

Are you sure that you are not talking about grips? OP was asking about barrel right?

Both barrels have -fire rate.

#5

Most maliwan pistols come with a splash that is boosted by grenade damage (non-special mali snipers, smgs and launchers don’t actually get boosted iirc). I would go with the Animosity because if you’re consuming 2 ammo might as well make it do damage. I think Glitched is 100% better on all fronts because the Mag boost and the Yellow Glitch (Better cuz that whole 2 ammo thing) EXCEPT for whatever reason you want to use an elemental weapon on Claptrap, you would probably want to use the smaller mag version, but STILL i would probably go with a Shield Pen Luneshine preference unless you’re using a shock animosity.

#6

You’re right, there is a slight accuracy dip, (from 2.5 to 2,3) but it’ still higher DPS :slight_smile:

#7

You mean fire rate?

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#8

Thanks everyone. For jack i decided to go with glitched animosity and claptrap crit luneshine animosity.

For claptrap, how do cc and LnS affect animosity damage gun and splashed?

#9

Yeah, oops :stuck_out_tongue:

#10

So LnS will only affect CC (And Your Myriad of Explosive Novas/Whatever Explosive Grenades you might be using) when you’re not using an explosive thingamajig , Sooo its not that important unless you plan on avoiding the right tree entirely (Where you’ll have so many throwaway points it wont matter). Nothing really special with the CC its just another splash that randomly procs on what I’m assuming is the Bullet Impact but not the additional splash. @Exotek is a little more knowledgeable on that front so Imma just mention him just in case I’m spouting gibberish.

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#11

:confused:

I don’t get it.

Aegis has 8% more fire rate and 20% higher reload speed.

Why doesn’t it have higher DPS than Animosity,which only has ≈ 6% more damage?

#12

That would be theoretical DPS, not real DPS :smile:

Fire rate and reload speed are linked: the faster you shoot, the more often you will have to reload, so the impact of slower reload speed is less important on a slower gun,

then, both fire rate and reload speed suffer from breakpoints in their animation, so the 8% fire rate bonus is a best case scenario. On average it’s a 4% increase, and sometimes it’s nothing at all.

Next, reload speed is something that I don’t really like to factor in too much in DPS calculations, since there are natural downtimes in fights, and you can always reload between scraps, or after every kill depending on your playstyle. You’re not always standing still and holding the trigger, so adding this value straight into the equation is more or less valid IMO. In short: Reload speed has less impact on actual DPS than it has in theoretical DPS.

Another thing about reload speed is that it’s very easy to improve with any character, so it has less of an impact on the final output than it’s value suggests. While raw damage will see more improvement from a starting higher value (since a % increase of a big number is a bigger increase than the same % of a smaller number), an improvement to reload speed will see diminishing returns since we tend to go toward 0. So while they might start out as different in the reload speed department, a few increases will see the gap between them get narrower.

And finally, even if some equation would give them about similar DPS, you’re always better with the gun that does more per ammo.

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#13

For clappy, luneshine animosity maliwan grip mag size is 13.
Is Jakobs grip which increase damage decrease mag size better?

#14

Jakobs grip increases damage, but lowers mag size, reload speed and fire rate (quite significantly) as well as reducing your elemental chances. Grip is Maliwan here, accept no substitute.

Luneshine would be good, but a glitch would be even better since it increases mag size quite a bit as well, and since you blow through your mag quite fast (Mali pistols consume 2 ammo per shot) you’ll get those glitches pretty often. They might not last that long, so for a speed run they would not be that great, but they average out much better. I couldn’t tell which glitch to go for… They all seem like they could help. I don’t know if the amp glitch also boosts the splash.

#15

But aren’t all DPS theoretical,because time to aim,aim accuracy,critical hit misses are not calculated?

How would general barrel rule look like? Something like this:

Dahl always for Dahl because it increases burst count
Always matching for Torgue/Jakobs
Maliwan for Maliwan SMG
Scav for other SMGs
Maliwan for Maliwan Snipers
Torgue/Jakobs if barrel reduces damage?
Vladof on Vladof if ammo allows it?
Damage barrel if matching barrel does not offer anything super useful (Tediore,Maliwan pistols and RL)??

#16

Yes all dos is only in theory but also raiding dos and mobbing dps are very different.

Any general rules are typically bad rules.

Snipers to pistols to shotguns would all be different for each brand and each barrel and each build.

Lastly I know Dahl stocks increase burst but do barrels?

#17

Ha-ha! Can’t argue with you there :stuck_out_tongue:

Still, we could lose ourselves in calculating every factors, but it’s a big waste of time, so we better stick to a simple base.

If we take damage X fire rate as a base and add mag size and reload speed in varying amount, we get a good ballpark guess. Reload speed is a factor, but I just don’t think that plugging it as-is in the equation is a good way to go unless we’re talking bullet-sponge boss.

Take Scav/Bandit pistols for example: they sometimes have mag sizes near 100. They also have a fire rate around 4, which means you will have to shoot for a looooong time before you have to reload. If they had a reload speed of 5 instead of 3.5… Would it really matter ? You’re probably only gonna reload between encounters anyway.

At the other end of the spectrum we have the single-shot Jakobs shotguns, where reload speed is a crucial factor and should be included as-is in the equation. (Or even, used instead as a fire rate value)

Everything else falls somewhere in between. :smile:

As for Bandit barrel, they have a slight damage bonus (although I seem to remember that they are better in TPS than in BL2… To be verified)
But the most important part is that matching barrels provide a Damage bonus. It just happens that the Torgue barrel provides a bigger bonus than the matching bonus. So for Maliwan and Hyperion pistols, the Torgue barrel is often better (especially on Hyperion pistols where the matching barrel improves accuracy, which they don’t need at all)

So if you’re not sure, matching barrel is almost always the best choice. (Exception: the Tediore barrel doesn’t have a matching barrel bonus, so on Tediore pistols, any other barrel is good)

#18

I think they do… 90% sure. I know grip doesn’t, but pistols don’t have stocks, so I’m not sure if its pistol-specific or if barrels always affect burts count.

#19

I understand that glitched animosity maliwan grip is best. But clappy’s OLT is most effective with low mag one. Luneshine, Jakobs grip gives you that. The question is, do lower mag worth the lower fire rate and higher reload of jakobs grip?

#20

It really depends on what COM you’re using and your spec (And frankly what system you’re playing on at that point). If I have those I can calculate whether or not using a jakobs grip over a Torgue or Maliwan will drastically cut ur FR. I do generally agree that more OLTs generally boosts your DPS better than conventional DPS increases like from Bigger Mag and Faster Reload, so say a 4 Shot Animosity either from a Jakobs or Torgue or Tediore Grip would do more damage than a 7 Shot Animosity with a Mali Grip.

Edit: I forget just How bad the increased recoil is from the Jakobs to the Torgue Grip, but the difference in Damage is about ~400 damage for 0.2 FR and 0.1 RS, Without doing the math first I’d say torgue grip is better, because regardless of your stuff the FR is low enough for that 0.2 to matter much more.

Eddit: Math Time

Assuming idk a Celestial CM (I mean you could also have a Loose Cannon or a Sapper but idk there really aren’t great elemental mods for clappy). You get a constant 65% FR, with the potential to reach about 165% FR (Assuming SOLO atm, without ease of getting the High5 FR or the Addional 45% FR from AtT). So on a General Basis you will have 3.75 FR vs 3.33 FR (This will actually be true regardless of console) going from Torgue to Jakobs. With the 50% from Livin’ on the Edge (Shields Down), both FRs will be the same on a 360/PS3 (~4.28), but on a PC, PS4, or XB1 the Torgue will have ~4.61 in comparison to the Jakobs ~4.28. I’m starting to think the Jakobs might actually be the better choice in THIS case.

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