Splashy questions about a weird Amara "build"

A few things first to make clear the purpose of this post. Apologies ahead of time for the length; it’s necessary to prevent fruitless discussions. There will be a point to all of this beyond me seeking help for one of my weird ideas, one that hopefully will end with the good people here providing some details to assist others (like me) struggling to understand the intricacies of Amara. But first things first.

Number one: I put scare quotes around “build” because what I’m running with is more of a personally tailored distribution of points, rather than something optimized or min-maxed. It’s just what I’ve found best to run with, more or less, given my peculiar aims. I’m aware that I’m a silly goose.

Number two: my peculiar aims. For anyone who partook in my last thread on Amara, it’ll come as no surprise that I aimed to center my “build” around Jakobs weapons.

Initially, I was running a basic Hellzerker spec, got a little bored with it, then got enchanted by the puzzle box of the Kensei COM. I’m under no illusions that what I’m doing here will outperform builds like Hellzerker, and in a sense I don’t want it to. I simply want it to be the best it can be, without regard to separate build concepts. In addition to facilitating the use of Jakobs weapons, I wanted, thus, to stop relying on the Re-Volter, which is beginning to feel too crutch-like and Bee-ish for my liking. The more I can move away from it the better.

So that’s the prologue: Kensei, Jakobs, no Re-Volter.

Now, in the process of researching Kensei builds it became very clear, very quickly that most of the popular build maestros on YouTube never settled on any one concept, eventually giving up on the COM altogether - probably for good reason.

Some went all purple tree; others barely went there at all. Various fixes to some of Amara’s skills and how they interact with each other further complicates things, as older ideas no longer hold as much water as they once did.

Point being, Kensei left space for experimentation. That’s good, in the sense that thinking is good. That’s bad, in the sense that I’m bad at thinking.

What I’m currently running - which you’ll see just below - is working rather well for me. It’s fun, challenging enough to be interesting, and doesn’t obviate tactical thinking. To emphasize: I’m not posting this because I’m struggling with survival or dealing damage or anything related to gameplay. I’m posting because it bothers me that I don’t know certain important details about what does what type of damage, and consequently whether or not I’m wasting skill points.

Here’s my spec:

I’ll get to my gear in a minute. Let me explain some aspects of the spec that might seem puzzling.

I began my Kensei experiments by going all the way down the purple tree, but the lack of survivability made it a chore. I tried to run without Sustainment and Avatar, which felt like living without food and water. Can’t do it, no can do. Unfortunately, then, this locks me into a full blue tree and a nearly full red tree - similar to a Hellzerker build, wouldn’t you know. I wish it weren’t so, but 'tis so. I cannot do without Sustainment, and playing without Avatar is the opposite of fun (for me).

The rest, then, was figuring out how to divvy up the leftovers between the green and purple trees.

My Kensei COM has 2 points in NMIN, 1 point in UTR, and 2 points in Joyful Freedom (passives are weapon dmg, cooldown, and melee dmg). After some toying around, I concluded that stopping my purple tree point allocation before getting to Joyful Freedom - cutting my losses there at +2 from the COM - and focusing, instead, on getting to Find Your Center in the green tree, I got better results than going deep purple. Arms Deal certainly plays some role in that.

Here’s my load-out:

Guns: Bird of Prey, Maggie, Bekah, Hellwalker. Sometimes I’ll use the Dakota when the Hellwalker bores me.

Shield: I haven’t settled on one, but am focusing on nova shields. Thus far, the Frozen Heart, Red Suit, and Stinger have worked best. For non-nova shields, a cryo Old God has worked splendidly. Old God notwithstanding, though, I’m a sucker for nova shields, always have been, so I’m mostly interested in getting the most out of either the Frozen Heart or the Stinger.

Grenade: Recurring Hex, usually with an ASE corrosive anoint.

Relic: I shift between an Ice Breaker Victory Rush, which performs best, and a Jakobs CM, which fits my Jakobs emphasis better. Passives are all good (cooldown, AOE, mag size on the CM; cryo dmg, AOE, mag size on the VR).

One of my most pressing questions is just what kind of damage novas involve. I’m aware that the Stinger nova is unique in that it deals melee damage, but I still wonder if it also does splash damage (same question for the Frozen Heart).

If I had to boil down this lengthy post to one issue, splash would be it - specifically, the mystery of splash damage in relation to Amara’s Infusion/TTB and nova shields. I can’t determine, with Amara, just what and what does not deliver splash.

So, yeah, I’m using Jakoks weapons in a build that in many ways depends on splash damage and status effects, which you are free to say is a dumb thing to do. But work with me here.

NMIN depends on status effects. Heavy Rain boosts splash damage (I only go +4 here because +5 screws with my Bekah distance too much). UTR depends on splash damage. Arms Deal boosts splash damage.

All of that I want to integrate into a kind of passive addition to the sheer kinetic force of Jakobs weapons. My thinking - note, not my knowledge - was that Infusion would put cryo (from my AS) into my weapons’ damage output, proc status effects thereby and with TTB and elemental ASE anoints, and… well… that’s that.

But is there actually any splash damage in there? Does cryo do splash damage? Does infusion weave elements into damage output in such a way as to do splash damage?

With respect to the shields, I’m completely in the dark about elemental novas and splash damage. I haven’t found anything online that shed any light on the subject. The Stinger in particular has a lot of potential here if it deals splash damage in addition to getting buffed by melee damage boosts. I’m certainly shredding with it. But I don’t know why I’m shredding with it.

In sum, the underlying concept is: Infusion/TTB, proc status effects and deal splash damage, proc purple tree stuff and get Heavy Rain/Arms Deal splash boosts, while also buffing my shield nova with splash (if I’m using a Frozen Heart) or doing that as well as buffing it with melee damage (if I’m using a Stinger). That quasi-passive chain of splash and status effects is supposed to be woven into or laid on top of my basic Jakobs boom-boom pew-pew.

It amounts to a kinetic Amara “infused” with splash, cryo, ASE elements, potent novas, and melee damage multipliers. Or at least, that’s the idea.

Trouble is, as I’ve been indicating, I have no idea if I’m even getting a fraction of the splash damage I think I’m getting. I don’t know if my novas are dealing splash damage. I don’t know if Infusion is helping to deliver it. I don’t know if TTB deals it. And I’m finding it surprisingly difficult to get up-tp-date information on all of that.

The only other questions I have relate to the blue tree. I’ve seen people running with +4 in Alacrity and only +1 in Do Harm. Likewise, they don’t spec into Awakening at all. I haven’t a clue how Do Harm works with TTB, or if Awakening is worth specing into at all. Again, all I see online are conflicting and often contradictory remarks.

I want to apologize again for my lack of brevity. I didn’t have time to make this shorter, and I figured some people here would enjoy having something theoretical or Amara-related to talk about.

That’s all, folks.

Yes it does.

All of phaseslam and phaseflare variants, tandava, and Fist Over Matter for action skills; Unweave the Rainbow, Body and Mind, Free the Soul, Remnant, and Do Unto Others for her skills. Guns are a bit inconsistent, but this list contains all the guns that roll with splash (may not be 100% up to date though).

Jakobs weapons that deal splash are Rowan’s Call on the ricochet, headsplosion, the Dakota, Duc, and some others I can’t remember offhand.

Bonus elements actually don’t include splash in their damage calculations. Basically, if you are using a splash weapon with a bonus element with max value splash passives on COM and artifact at level cap (94%), just imagine that bonus ele is giving you half as much damage as it says it does.

The Stinger does both melee and splash, and receives melee mayhem scaling to boot.

I hope this helps a bit. I’m not an Amara main so I’ll refrain from giving out too much advice at the moment.

1 Like

That sucks. So, basically, the cryo I’m getting from infusion is not doing any splash damage, nor is TTB.

As far as I can tell from what you’ve said, if I’m not using the Dakota or a Rowan’s Call I’m not getting any splash in the entirety of my gun and AS output. It’s essentially all coming from my shield.

Would that be accurate?

And if it is accurate, maybe I’d be better served just not putting any points into UTR (which only affects my novas) and moving those two points in NMIN to further boost my melee damage in service of the Kensei special effect.

I’ll still have minor splash boosts from UTR, Arms Deal, and Heavy Rain (maybe - I don’t know if “weapons” in the description includes novas), but will be boosting more of the damage I’m normally delivering, at least with my guns.

One further question I forgot to ask. Do grenades deal splash damage? In particular, the grenades I often cycle between: Hex, Hunter-Seeker, Fish Slap, and CMT.

Mainly I use the Hex because it’s so good at keeping sustainment running whenever I’m screwed and my AS is cooling down at an inconvenient time. My sense is that it helps me with CH anoints, which I tend to run, as well.

TTB does transfer splash damage.

You also have hollowpoint, which with Jakobs will be pretty nice. There are also other Jakobs splash weapons, I just can’t remember what they are.

The grenades you listed all deal splash, but not in the way you would expect for all of them. Hex only deals splash on the initial explosion and not the beams, Hunter Seeker only deals splash on the final explosion and not on the bullets. Fish and CMT are straightforward.

Hope this helps.

1 Like

Forgive me for being dense, but I just want to make sure I understand this. “Transfer” means if I do splash damage with a weapon or grenade or nova, it will spread throughout the ties?

But it doesn’t actually deal splash damage itself, say, with the attuned element?

This is what I’ve been most confused about - whether or not my attuned element “splashes” in TTB. If it doesn’t, then that means all splash in Amara’s damage economy (assuming I’m using TTB) must come from “outside,” via weapons, novas, & nades. That would clear up a lot.

Does Hollow Point do splash damage? I have the perk but I don’t even remember what it does. I just remember it used to be messed up and deal self-damage.

Thank you, he says with relief. It’s been quite an adventure trying to get a straight answer to that question. Turns out, as usual with BL, there isn’t a “straight answer.” But since I at least know now how the nades I use work, it’ll do for me.

Most definitely. And thank you.

1 Like

Yes, that is exactly right.

Yes

Whatever excess damage killed an enemy on a crit is dealt as a splash damage AOE that double dips your on hit modifiers (V1, V2, Splash, and debuffs). Think of it like Remnant in a sense.

1 Like

Got it. And since you brought up Remnant - is that splash damage too?

Once I get clear on that, I’ll think I’ll have a much fuller of grasp of where my splash is coming from.

@Sejanus Remnant does splash damage. One of the main reasons you want to boost splash on Amara.

1 Like

Do you have any sense of whether I’d be better off only putting a point into Do Harm and none into Awakening, as I’ve seen a lot of people do?

I try to put as much as I can afford into it simply because LD now does (though he didn’t always). Don’t understand it at all; I’m basically just copy pasting that part of it.

I put 3 in Fast Hands, 1 in Do Harm, and 1 in Violent Tapestry. I run a Phasezerker (I am only a very occasional Amara player nowadays but I probably have 150 hours in her I guess - point is I am no Amara expert), and am maxing out the blue tree as well, but you might want to allocate points differently. I don’t think it matters too much as long as you have at least 1 in DH and 1 in VT. I like the points further down in the tree better, so I only take the bare minimum in Tier 1.

1 Like

I don’t play Amara but if you’re on PSN, I’m happy to give you some other Kensai’s to try out for this. The different rolls may even help you get your answers.
Two options I have that you may be interested in:
Weapon fire rate, ASD and ASC.
Splash damage, splash damage radius and ASC.

1 Like

Dude hell yes. I’ve been begging for more Kenseis to try out and have zero desire to farm AR for them.

PSN capeyson

Whatever you’ve got, give liberally and I shall humbly receive. Would love to experiment more with this COM as I’m pretty dialed-in on it for now.

PSN is wonga-bunny then send a message as a reminder.
Cheers.

1 Like

Sent the request but there wasn’t anything that allowed me to leave a message that I could see.

EDIT - I think I found a way to message anyway. Sent it over.

Not an Amara-specific but more of an Amara-adjacent question -

I’ve learned lately that barrels count as self-damage, are thus not subject to health gate, and accordingly can one-shot you. What I’m wondering is whether self-damage via barrels gets all the bonuses to the VH’s damage as well - in particular, splash damage and splash radius and AOE bonuses, but also elemental status effect/damage bonuses.

I noticed, or think I noticed anyway, while trying out one of Fnq1974’s Kensei COMs with both splash and splash radius as passives, that I was going down from seeming “one shots” far more frequently than before.

Another weird thing I noticed: I was aiming to farm for a Headsplosion but hadn’t yet done the mission leading up to it, so I had to fight my way through some swampy areas in Voracious Canopy. Whenever I activated my AS and thus the nova on my Stinger while standing in a puddle, I would catch a monstrous DOT and go down almost instantaneously. I tested it to be sure, and I’m 99% it’s the water + nova causing it.

I have no idea why that would be the case, or if it’s not the case, just what the hell is happening there.

One final related question. There are times when I’ll have someone Grasped, get up mid-to-close range, shoot them till they die - and then they explode and I go down lickety-split.

But it doesn’t always happen, which is what puzzles me.

It’s entirely possible it’s some other outside source of damage I’m unaware of just happening to down me right when the enemy explodes, but I really doubt that. It happens too frequently, whereas coincidences like that don’t.

I’m not speced into either Anima or Catharsis, but I am running with +4 Heavy Rain and +5 Arms Deal, if that matters.

I was poking around in the BL3 threads here last night and found the running Hot Takes thread. I saw your hot take from earlier this year (iirc), that is, that Amara is a poorly designed character, and I just want to say - despite maining her, I’d have to agree.

Too many of her skills are absurdly convoluted, qualified, and flat-out broken in ways that are, to say the least, unintuitive. Merely understanding what some of her most important skills do requires outside research and/or extensive testing.

I’ve never had this much difficulty trying to understand a VH’s skill trees in any previous BL game. Not even close.

I’m not sure why they screwed the pooch so badly with her, but I can hazard a guess. I get the sense it’s largely because they wanted to make her a kind of hybrid of Maya (grasp/elemental), Lilith (melee/elemental), and Aurelia (ice queen), while blocking as many paths to becoming OP as possible.

This collage-like approach to conceptualizing Amara resulted in extremely bizarre skills like Infusion, as well as practically suicidal skills like Anima and Catharsis.

Expedite didn’t work for two years, and its conditions are limited even now that it does. But she has very little cooldown outside of that, even though her damage output depends almost completely on spamming her AS (and GB knows this - hence Avatar). She has invitations to building her as a melee character all over the place - without any actual meleeing. Samsara is broken and doesn’t work with phasegrasp (unless they fixed it?). Etc., etc.

Fundamentally, it seems to me they weren’t working with a clear, consistent concept with Amara, which, arguendo, lead to her creation in the form of a byzantine set of esoteric skills and WTF synergies.

On the other side of the ledger - I have to admit it’s kind of fun trying to unearth the unwritten rules of Amara. That’s no excuse for sub-par execution, but it does mitigate it a little.

1 Like

They do.

Water gets environmental mayhem scaling, which is x12 at M10. Mayhem water is the BL3 equivalent of barrels in OP8 BL2. It will kill you, avoid it at all costs.

That one I’m not sure of, sorry.

1 Like

Well I’ll be a son of a gun. What on earth is the rationale for that?

It feels weird to say the most dangerous enemies in the game, by far, are barrels, even after being tempted to say that for BL2. BL3 just ratchets that up to a whole new level.

Things I wish I had known sooner…. Happy that I’m not crazy, though. At least I inferred something correctly, for a change.

No problem. It could be a lot of things.

Are you specc’d into conflux?

I run fully spec’d into anima and catharsis and run deathless builds… You have to be more aware of your environment to survive better. And FFYL is part of the game. Use it and don’t feel bad if you do. I could never understand gamers getting mad at using FFYL… Not saying you in particular, just in general.

2 Likes

Especially with the existence of a certain GR perk! Can relying on FFYL backfire on you? Certainly. Is it a big deal if it happens periodically? Nope.

1 Like

I really don’t understand why they continue to put barrels in BL games. They rarely help and mostly hinder. At this point I think that GBX have kept them because of streamer trolling games LOL.