Which build is better?

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

I have an idea for two builds I want to use for soloing and need some thought on better. The first one forces on explosive gunplay and the mech by your side Skill Calculator • Moze • BL3 | Lootlemon

While this one mainly focuses on being in the mech. Skill Calculator • Moze • BL3 | Lootlemon

Which would you say is the strongest of the two for soloing?

#2

Missing a few parts to give a proper idea, I’d assume it’s urad due to lack of “RO”, but without the SOR tree that’s a little odd. Lacking a large amount of damage by skipping Big surplus(if this is a flame build - disregard) and skimping 1point to FitSD - 2-3 points is more than enough in vampyr for both moze and IB

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#3

For the first option (Moze focused):
Blue tree:
You can take points out of Vampyr and put into FITSD for the blue tree. If you’re happy to run without the cub for a little bit, also pull all the points out of grizzled and deadlines. Possibly add the third point to means of destruction for better ammo regen.
If you use the shield anointment of kills increase Iron Bears cooldown plus have topped of enabled, cooldown is not too long. In between that, using big surplus (all 3 points) will offset the missing cub.

Green tree: You have lots of mag size and Forge. It will depend on your class mod and weapon but if you use a blastmaster or mindsweeper that has a point in redistribution, it’s often enough along with a CMT and pull the holy pin to get good ammo regen on most splash weapons without needing to go all in on mag size. So you could pull a point out of iron bank.

Purple tree:
Pull all 10 points back out and put 3 into big surplus.

Red tree:

Remove security bear and fill up armoured infantry and drowning in brass.
You’ll still have points left here for options like experimental munitions and Vladof ingenuity.
A lot of the changes suggested though depend on the gear you are using plus your preference to run without the cub for a bit while taking advantage of big surplus or preference for a shorter down time.
What were you looking to do gear wise and your approach to the cub?

#4

This is something of a vague question when we only have the skill trees and their intended purposes mentioned. Moze is always at her strongest when she and Bear are both present at the same time and acting as a pair. Having said that, Iron Bear is so ludicrously overpowered as an action skill that if you choose to be a full-time pilot, then all the hardest content can be easily done with little-to-no gear requirements.

With the skill build dedicated to Moze using explosive guns with Cub providing debuff support, it’s hard to tell what exactly it is you are aiming for unless we know what class mod you have in mind, and also possibly which explosive weapons you’re leaning towards. Your build might make a little more sense if you’re using something that’s ammo-hungry like the Sand Hawk but there would still be changes to be made. There are a number of things that make sense in terms of allocation of points and others that don’t make much sense at the same time.

Your Bear pilot build is a lot more intuitive in comparison but again, there are a few conflicting points here. Is your choice of dual Miniguns purely because you don’t have access to Railgun augments, or is it because you plan on using the Heat Exchanger anyway? Miniguns run the risk of you destroying Bear, whereas he is immune to the splash damage of Hammerdown Protocol. If you’re using Eternal Flame however, that allows you to get away with a lot more benefits in terms of your choice of skill points.

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#5

I think I decied on this build. My hope that this build allows me to be good both out and inside the mech and my mech is good as bear or a cub. Anythoughts.

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#6

This build is substantially better.

Some of Moze’s best skills are Short Fuse, Short Fuse, and Fires in the Skag Den (due to Mayhem scaling, especially), but I do have some advice:

You want 5/5 Fires in the Skag Den. It receives Mayhem scaling so it actually deals way more damage than listed at Mayhem 10/11. You also want 3/3 Big Surplus, because it’s its own multiplier for your damage, so it also yields way more damage than is listed at Mayhem 10/11. I find a significant portion of Moze’s damage comes from Fires in the Skag Den and Big Surplus, especially given that those are tier 1 skills.

At the bottom is the build I have used to clear all solo content, including TGTD, the raids, everything.

It works well with the Flare class mod with a Plus Ultra with the, “kills reduce IB’s cooldown by 30%” anoint. It also works insanely well with the Rocketeer mod and any Gunner splash anoints, giving you basically 100% uptime on those anoints as well as Big Surplus when you use Iron Bear as a turret (I find Auto Bear has better accuracy than Cub, but I can’t prove that’s not a bias on my part). This also works well with a Blast Master mod.

If you want to use Mind Sweeper, exchange the points from Drowning in Brass or similar to get 3/3 Pull the Holy Pin so you increase the chances of micro grenades critting.

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#7

Ya, I have a hard time decided how to build Moze, for I love the idea of Iron bear, both riding it and by my side, but of course, I don’t want Moze weak as there would be times where it’s on cooldown. If it helps, the class mods that are interesting to me are. Bear Trooper, Blast Master, Eternal Flame, Flare, Heat Exchanger, Raging Bear.

Also, here are some of the thoughts I have when I’m making my build. Of course, I’m going into the blue tree as it is the base of Moze for guns and Bear. I would think you only need one point in either Fire in the Skag Den or Vampyr. Also, Pull the holy pin seem only to need one as while crit chances is good at full max it’s only 30%. The green is where I can’t decide to go fully down the green to get the forge or stop at Specialist Bear. As for the purple one, I meanly got Really Big Guns and Biofuel but I always try to find a way to get Never Going to Give you up and Nitrotrinadium Engines.

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#8

Based on what you’ve just said and the last skill tree link you posted, it seems like you’ve put together a skill build that’s better to use when piloting Bear than anything else. I wouldn’t even look at anything else in terms of COMs other than Eternal Flame if that’s the case because with the other Bear COMs, you always have to pay some attention towards your fuel tank and making sure you exit enough to mitigate the cooldown. With EF however, you don’t have to invest so much in fuel-efficiency skills because the 15% chance to refund the cooldown changes everything.

So you have a skill build better designed for Bear, but you’re implying that you want to place relative focus on Moze as well as Bear.

The single point in FitSD is another factor that makes me think your skill build is leaning towards piloting Bear - in comparison, it does a hell of a lot more for Moze which is why even if you’re aiming for a hybrid playstyle, you want to max it out. As for Vampyr, it’s recommended that you have at least 2 points in it for Moze.

Well you need 1 point in it to be able to use it, but another point doubles your chances on top of that. It’s when it goes beyond 2 points that it truly starts to decrease in relative value per point spent. Think about it: you start with a 1 in 10 chance, and then another point gives you a 1 in 5 chance which is a 100% increase in total. But the third point only adds 50% on top of that total and any bonus points will grant less and less.

The green skill tree is point-by-point perfect for a Bear pilot build. Forge is only worth going for if you’re using an ammo-hungry weapon that’s not a launcher and/or aiming for some sort of Blast Master build. The only question mark I see is the absence of Rushin’ Offensive, assuming you have any intention of using Moze on-foot even semi-regularly.

If you’re going for a Bear pilot build then actually, you don’t really need to go that far down the purple tree at all. I mean sure, it’s an option to go down it but then again, the Eternal Flame by itself does an overall better job of giving you more time with Bear than the entire purple tree.

But because you say you “don’t want Moze weak” then I can’t offer a great deal of input unless I have an idea of a) how you intend on using Bear/Cub and b) what exact weapons and gear you’re planning on using. For example, Moze can enter/exit to give herself and Auto Bear 160% splash damage for 18 seconds and with the cooldown skills, you can easily refresh the anointment; this is what I do in my Blast Master build to max out the splash damage multiplier.

You can use Flare to boost both Moze and Cub at the same time or do a 50:50 hybrid build where you pilot Bear until the fuel tank is half empty and the remainder of the time is just Moze on foot. Or you can use Eternal Flame to make Moze the Beastmistress and have Cub up 100% of the time just like Fl4k and their pets.

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#9

That for all, though, and I have updated my last tree skill builds. I have put the two weapons I would use for bear, the minigun and the rocket laucher.

As for how I want to use Iron bear, I want to use him in all the ways, as someone who can deal out lots of damages, both being droved or by my side or used to make my enemies weaker. The thing I would like to be able to do is to switch between these different options without changing my skill every time.

#10

This type of build is how I would choose to go about what you just described, and I would be basing it on the Eternal Flame because it’s the most flexible COM in terms of switching between piloting Bear, Auto Bear, perma-Cub or even ASE Cub (the last one being the reason why I got Some for the Road). EF can drop with Running on Fumes and bonus points for Nitrotrinadium Engines. Eternal Flame also allows you to do what I’ve done with the skill trees - remove all the fuel-efficiency skills and put the points into more DPS and general utility.

Selecting Cub with dual Railguns is just a placeholder - it’s what I would do if I wanted Cub up 100% of the time in an Eternal Flame build, but you can change Bear’s loadout to whatever you want. Mixing a minigun with a vanquisher would mean there’s no point in speccing into Specialist Bear. Drowning in Brass is worth going for in any Bear/Cub build because that’s Type B damage which occupies its own slot in Bear’s damage formula - it multiplies with other damage sources.

#11

I like it, I have made some tiny changes to it if you don’t mind. I went a bit down the purpled so I can get my little friend so when I use Iron cub, he can soften the enemy and still do damage.