What went wrong

I have enjoyed the game for a few playthroughs and had fun farming Arms Race till the vehicle glitch was nerfed.

Now though I find the game pretty boring. I think the really easy access to super powerful guns (which I enjoyed at first) and the Mayhem system are probably the two factors that have mostly done it in for me.

And lest I forget, once you have super-powerful weapons, rewards for repeating the game are trivial and completely ignore-able since so many weapons just don’t cut it under the way the Mayhem system “scaled”.

I would be completely open to a Mayhem overhaul that made sense but there isn’t any sign Gearbox is interested. As things stand, the lack of traffic in this forum fit’s perfectly with the drop in interest in the now boring game.

I did read where the upcoming (purchase) patch/upgrade/dlc is going to try and furnish a reason to keep playing but without fixing the silly scaling in Mayhem, I don’t think it will last.

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My sentiment exactly. Story just is not an easy rush thru due to dialog barriers and quest item take-when-they’re-done-talking barriers. Story isn’t even that compelling for me. Twins are a good villain but why go the typhon deleon route AT ALL.

when a game let’s you run it at your own pace (BL2, Dark Souls) it makes it replayable.

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Getting bored of a game released over a year ago doesn’t mean something’s necessarily wrong.

The problem with examining it from this perspective is that everyone’s opinions will ultimately differ in some way. There are broad strokes various groups of people agree with (apart from the universal support of stability and bugfixes, hopefully), but the deeper you go the more likely it is you’re going to disagree with what someone else wants from the game.

For example, I’m completely bored of BL2. Doing another OP level does absolutely nothing for me. I’m on a bit of a BL3 break because my main co-op buddy is abroad and I’m moderately addicted to Hades. My problem is performance, my aging machine doesn’t cope that well on top of BL3’s performance hitches.

But if I had to choose between the two for 30 - 60 minutes of fun? I’d pick BL3. I get more fun out of the skill interactions than I do in BL2, and in both games I find farming the “perfect” weapon tedious. So even though Anoints (and silly weapons) drive the endgame in BL3, so do god rolls in BL2 and I suck at getting both. So it’s back to the core ability / gameplay loop for me, which I just simply prefer in BL3.

The hard reality is that a games developer have to cater to a majority, and they have the best statistics on who plays what game modes and how much. They’re not actively going to build content for players who aren’t playing the game. And there’s unfortunately a financial limit on how much they can attempt to broaden the appeal of the game for new or returning players. It puts any game, post-release, especially as times goes on, in an increasingly difficult spot. It’s not an easy problem to solve. Any rework is bound to annoy a portion of the existing playerbase, that’s just how it is. Nobody here can guess at what would magically help the most and harm the least.

Apart from, again, bugfixes. Always be wanting some of those.

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They should have locked mayhem 2-11 behind challenges so they had to be unlocked. Maybe locked certain high powered anointments behind high mayhem levels so they could only be used once unlocked.

It is way too easy to get a character to 65, slam on m11 and stock it with weapons from the bank.

There is no endgame challenge.

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FWIW, I recently bought a 4 Terabyte 7200 rpm hard drive and migrated my system to that. I had to buy a partition assistant program to clone everything but every performance aspect of my pc improved very noticeably. It was a Western Digital Black.

I do it immediately after Mayhem becomes available at the end of the story arc. Personally don’t see a good reason to wait till L65, since you have to ‘struggle’ for may be half a level at most before you find something decent.

Would be OK with some built-in unlock system.

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i fixed it by using overhaul mod that feels much more difficult and code is so easy that if i find anything overpowered i can nerf it myself to match the peers, this makes game have so much more sense. It is by no means perfect but practice makes perfect and i am only beginning to tweak the values.

Overall content being harder from level 1 and during the level up has been massive and together with no anoints present it actually matters where i put my skill points, i can engage with my action skill instead of wanting it to and asap. i get no pseudo immunity i can not break offensive abbilities on the shields, nades are scaled to actually do damage instead of being anoint proc slot . it has been a big breath of fresh air and it made me complain about whatever vanilla carp is far less but i am still bigcfan of the franchise an it makes me sad to see it in the state it is in right now. I called it million years early that super powerful gear is bad for the game and it is boring, repeating a same loop over and over with no mechanical challenge in it can not be feasable for long term entertainment. weather it is nade spamming aoe nnuking ass shield freezing or nova/spike spamming self damage immunity ass stop gap immunity you can not have fun with it for extended periods of time abusing melee scaling and using same shotgun and artifact? yeah also boring even if you like it for some time.

what does not get boring quickly is ducking and weaving betweeen enemies picking up coms and guns and respecing and changing your play according to the gear you are runing, having options to go to different manufacturers and achieve same results while playing completely differently. prioritizing targets in your mobbing and bossing, engaging with your action skill/skills pets and most importantly having your skill point expenditure actually matter. that does not get boring easily bl is a journey heck some of the most fun is leveling with strangers, that is why game needs to be generally harder at all times and that is why gear viability is of utmost importance.

we can not have things we want but we can sure wish.

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wish I was on PC I’m jealous!

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yes that is one big advantage grim has done fabulous job, just by reading lines in the notepad you can tinker with so many things except for i did not find how to change specific guns or specific enemies. I dno what can save vanilla for ya all the self restriction challenges we ran were fun but it is not as fun as having whole game playing well without you limiting yourself.

the game is ruined in its difficulty because
it was at mayhem 4 PERFECT
game was difficult, weapons where in a great spot, annoints werent the best part

now the game has weapons broken because mayhem 2.0 and dlc 3 came out
both grossly disfigured the hp of enemies, and gave us extremelybroken pieces of gear

from this point the game is either one tap everything or boring and takes forever

because you either onetap everything or rather things like zanes drone or mnts, you rly have nothing to do

and it can never go back either as the entire game is now balanced for this
its a shame, but its what it is
mayhem 2.0 was a mistake

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or you can get an SSD and be even faster.
but I think he was talking more CPU and GPU

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There were a pretty significant part of this community that said this would happen and that a harder game makes for a longer lifespan (right when the big buffs started to come), but the majority said “it is good, if you want challenge go play DS” or “casual gameplay is what makes a game live longer”, three months later even the forum is dead lol

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It’s not the access to the weapons that’s the problem. It never was and never will be.

There is a strong community of people who would play the game with perfect rolled but legitimate gear they got in illegitimate ways and have a very fun time. The fun and longevity of borderlands is barely related to its grind mechanics. This game even made all those mechanics more tedius and less rewarding.

What happened is nothing feels powerful in a meaningful way. Everything just either works or doesn’t. There’s skills that completely nuke enemies regardless of weapon. At least the old Elemental Projectiles brokenness was broken in an interesting way. When Commitment and Skag Den nullify the majority of gear and build choices. It’s hard to have a good time because nothing feels interesting.

Either you purposely avoid things that nuke things, and get left in the dust missing their damage…or you nuke things…and leave the game in the dust.

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I love the arguement of “just don’t use OP gear,” this shouldn’t be a relevant excuse considering we have 11 difficulty settings and content scaled/designed for FOUR players that can easily be steamrolled solo.

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All the interesting mechanics are locked behind things that destroy things :frowning:

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This was my argument from the moment they implemented the removal of the extra projectiles mechanic. At least the ASE extra projectiles thing had extremely interesting repercussions - it made weapons (and items) interesting for reasons other than having a ridiculous base damage value, especially Jakobs. I know and understand why they made the change, but I wish they hadn’t.

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Mayhem 2.0. And that arose from the game designers absolute refusal to playtest anything before release. So many things were released bugged on its release - almost everything except guns didn’t scale, enemies clearly had too much health, we had to rely primarily on new guns/anoints, enforcing modifiers that only a minority wanted etc. So many things that could have been easily avoided had anyone playtested for more than 10 mins. I mean all you had to do was open 1 chest at M10 to see loot drops weren’t scaling. Tested Iron Bear for 1 run in Athenas to see it couldn’t break the shield of the first enemy. They had this huge stream team, many of which were in tune with the community, but didn’t consult them regarding the major changes they were making (compulsory modifiers would have been a huge red flag).

But I would argue that it was less Mayhem 2.0, but GB haphazard firefighting in trying to fix the problem they made which really hurt the game. Almost all games/DLC are released with bugs and balancing issues on release - but that’s why we have patches and hotfixes to make the game better. But GB often tried to fix these issues in the most blunt, bruteforce manner possible, without stopping to think about more elegant solutions which arise from the core of M2.0 itself.

For example, they tried buffing a ton of guns to increase gear diversity. Except the problem was never that the guns were too weak - the Cutsman steamrolled everything back at M1.0, why should it suddenly suck at M2.0? What was obvious was that enemies had too much health - anything that was viable at M10 absolutely steamrolled NVHM and TVHM. A level 10 hellwalker could last you 20-30 levels. And by haphazardly buffing weapons, only these weapons with GB’s ‘magic touch’ were viable, and the gap between those things and everything else was absolutely inane. Like why in the world does a Plasma Coil or Crit do 40+ k damage when a regular maliwan does like 4k? This kind of gear imbalance was completely unprecedented in borderlands, which had always, no matter how imbalanced the rest of the game was, gotten gear balance right. And they did that by adhering to a proper baseline - the non-uniques.

Mayhem Scaling was another huge mess. In BL2, action skills and rank based skills scaled fine into OP levels (even if they weren’t always viable) - so shouldn’t the same logic have applied to these things in BL3. GB realised their mistake and sought to fix it, which was good. The bad part was how arbitrary Mayhem scaling was. Shouldn’t guns, action skills, melee, shield effects and rank-based skills receive the same scaling? Why is it that guns and grenades only receive a 2.67x boost, but melee gets 15x, Action skills get 31x and pets get a whooping 54x? It doesn’t make any sense. Once more, if pets and melee NEEDED to have a huge boost to be viable at M10, then clearly 1) they are too weak at base. 2) Enemies have too much health. But yet GB took the most brute force approach again, and the game suffered for it.

And certain skills and items double-dipping into Mayhem scaling is even more mindboggling. GB clearly acknowledged how Short Fuse, Indiscriminate etc were double dipping into their Mayhem boosts, and said they will look into it… and then they went and gave them Mayhem Scaling anyway. They said they ‘reduced’ the Mayhem Scaling on these skills - which means they had the capability to totally eliminate it - but yet went ahead with it, despite Short Fuse already being one of the strongest skills in the game and Indiscriminate/TTB being some of Amara’s best skills. Then there is stuff like FitSD which unintentionally received this scaling and became absolutely ridiculous. How stupidly overpowered it was became evident like 12 hrs after the scaling change - and yet here we are, half a year later, and nothing has changed. Instead GB has allowed more skills like Kensei, Unweave the Rainbow and Big Surplus to receive this ridiculous double-dipping.

BL3 has so much going for it, so much it does better than its predecessors. But the issues propagated by Mayhem 2.0 have unfortunately made this game a shadow of what it could be.

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Many, many likes. Well said.

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here i am hello i said that :smiley: look at how many dedicated streamers can not even bring themselves to play bl3 any more and still replaying bl2

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game went down hill abit ago i think as i stopped playing way before arms race and glad i never paid for season 2 pass as i doubt they fix stuff people actually want fixing and just keep doing gun and character nerf’s/buffs randomly instead. though mayhem modes on bl3 are joke compared to bl2 anyway.

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