Zane needs to be fixed

Borderlands 3 Zane the Operative
#1

As stated in many other topics, he doesn’t have a particularly unique style, unless you count letting the clone kill everything. Amara already moves fast, the kill skill thing is also done by Fl4k and needs Seein Dead to be worth it anyway, and apart from the occasional cryo weapon, he doesn’t really have any weapons that make you go ‘that would be perfect for Zane!’ like the other VHs do.

To make things worse, the one thing he does have going, dual ASA, may or may bot be contributing to constant freezes on the PC.

He’s one of the best new characters from BL3, I really wish that he had more niche roles and worked properly.

#2

Technically the Redistributor and the Smog work best with Zane because of the barrier, but I agree that Zane does not really fit in any niche. You also do not have a lot of options on how you can spec into his skill trees due to how useless the under cover tree is. It is arguably one of the worst skill trees from any VH.

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#3

Oh, no wonder Smog was barely doing anything for me, I was using a clone build.

So, smog gets amped from barrier? Do you still need to aim down sights?

#4

The stability issues are a lot better since the last couple of updates. Your mileage will vary, especially on console, but on PC (with a base-spec recommended CPU), the only crashes I tend to get now are with the Chain Gang Mayhem modifier enabled. This isn’t to downplay stability issues with the game. But I’ve got a lot of hours in Zane, and performance is currently the best its been (for me).

I’ve run a CCC Zane since release, I don’t use Seein’ Dead, and I’ve been comfortably at M4 without thinking too much for some time now. I could probably push it up to M6 with my current gear and not suffer too much.

Don’t get me wrong. I think there’s room to improve Zane, and I think the developers relying on Seein’ Dead is a poor choice that maybe served as a (long-term) stopgap for Zane’s balance issues. But he’s not bad, in fact he’s quite good, and CCC Zane is definitely a unique playstyle in this game. Nobody else relies on Cryo quite like him (especially with that build).

Under Cover is an . . . okay skill tree. I wouldn’t say “worst”, but it has a lot of problems in scaling with endgame (Mayhem), as well as being superceded by specific Guardian perks. The Barrier is great, Brain Freeze is great, dome Barrier is basically required to keep shields up for perma AS triggering through CCC. The capstone is poor though, and the Augments are a bit meh outside of cheesing movement speed (which you can now do with a Mayhem modifier) and my personal favourite - Deterrence Field. Nothing like near-perma stagger on all enemies in contact with the shield. It rewards getting up close and personal, which synergises with high-crit multi-pellet things like Jakobs’ shotguns (thank heavens for the Hellwalker buff).

One of the biggest complaints about the green tree, from memory, was that it’s a bit boring. Very straightfoward interactions outside of Brain Freeze > CCC. Add to this the Guardian perks and even Mayhem modifiers that take away the green tree’s strengths, and you have a tree that might not be bad, but has gotten worse as time has gone on.

I still run Barrier / SNTL myself, but I also don’t push M7+ and don’t need to mess about with clone-swapping Anointments. I’m hoping the fourth skill trees are real, are coming, and come with a general skill rebalance as well. That’s what I’m dreaming of.

#5

Smog gets bonus damage based on the gun’s shield being full. Because of the barrier, making that happen is significantly easier with Zane than any other VH.

#6

Part of the problem with the Under Cover tree is that the barrier is such a superb defensive tool. You only really need to invest enough points to get the augments for the barrier and can easily avoid the rest. Not too mention the majority of the augments do nothing when using all-rounder.

As you mention CCC and the augment Deterrence Field can be great. However you’d get a better boost to Zane by saving those points for the other 2 trees. If there was more damage or useful utility from the Under Cover tree there would be better reasons to spend more points in the tree.

#7

I agree. I would really like to see some changes to make Zane less dependable on see’n dead class mod on higher mayhem mods. Not to mention some of his skill are unusual and i personally never use them. I do play on m10, to be honest is not the way i would like to play Zane.
I think i mostly feel this way because i kinda stopped farming and i don’t have really good items but even so, without seen dead class mod, i would’t waste my time trying m10.

It is not a good idea to let a character’s whole combat design to rely on a single class mod for the rest of this game’s cicle. It is useless to create new class mods for fluture dlcs or content if everybody in endgame is using the same class mod because the character can’t keep up without it.

I love Zane and sometimes i feel i would return to no mayhem just to use blue, purple and other items and/or class mods than the same inventory all the time. Just my opinion.

#8

Permanent projectile immunity is pretty useful. The point of CCC is for infinite AS uptime, which means it’s very (very) hard to die (and SNTL actually does noticeable damage now).

I’ve never run clone (embarrassingly? I dunno. I’ve been invested in making a non-meta Zane “work”), is there another build that doesn’t rely on CCC for AS uptime? I would’ve thought clone / drone builds involve around letting at least one skill expire.

#9

Clone+Good Misfortune+Seein Dead com can keep up AS the entire time. You also get a lot more damage going this route.

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#10

Ah right, Seein’ Dead. I try to remove that from the question when evaluating builds, because Seein’ Dead effectively works with minimal investment (just a few Kill Skills here and there). Kill Skills also make the Executor work, but you actually have to work for that one.

#11

Had Good Misfortune reduced cooldown (actual time rather than percentage) instead maybe the Seein Dead mod would never have been made and Seein Red capstone would be more worthwhile to use. Definitely more options for Zane at least.

Saving grace is that Zane at least has one of the best designed skill trees, Doubled Agent.

#12

Yeah I agree. Seein Dead CM is a crutch. Zane is damn near useless without it. I honestly don’t think they’ll ever fix him. R.I.P Zane.