Its been a while…
So Hiya!
I know some of you may know that Zane’s clone is lacking in the damage department but I just wanted to make it a big thread. Please upvote.
1 Like
go and open a support ticket under game technical issues bugs-clone not scaling properly
https://support.2k.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003831093-Borderlands-3
click on submit a request and proceed to fill it out. it belongs to game play issue but it will be addressed quicker if it goes through as technical issue.
1 Like
Noelle just posted in news that they just released a hot fix that addressed clones scaling
1 Like
i do be testing right now!
It seems the devs put an extra 0 onto the scaling by mistake. My clone is dealing literly 5x more damage than me. My 200% action skill anoint maggie is hitting 200k body shots while the clone is doing 1 million + considering the headshots are 2 million + and considering how accurate it is things get quickly out of hand. I feel like the clone and the clone feels like the player atm not to mention how OP it is with bossing weapons like sandhawk. I saw my corrosive sandhawk doing 4-5mil + per pellet on flesh that crazy considering thats reduced damage effectiveness.
I like that the clone does damage but this is clearly broken.
1 Like
Is that with Double Barrel or is that just your clone damage without it?
Thicc did a Youtube vid this morning breaking down all the AS calcs and the Clone had been buffed, just not enough and Double Barrel hadn’t received any buff at that time it was doing just straight weapon card damage.
The hotfix that fixed cloned scaling just happened about 30 minutes ago so that video is now out of date. This is with double barrel, but even at half damage I think its a bit insane. I’m farming nothingness shotguns now. Before the patch is was taking a few mags from the nothingness to down the boss the nothingness to drops from. Now my clone shoots 8+ 2million damage pellets and drops the thing in 1 to 2 shots. Now i have 63% splash damage and 35% action skill damage on my zane, but that still seems absurd.
His latest vid said he was going to go over the damage, but didn’t mention the Double Barrel boost even though that’s what he was showcasing in the video so i guess the actual numbers on that are still to be determined?
I think he said clone w/ Donnybrook and Boom Enhance does 187k per shot which sounds about right. IT looks like whatever multiplier they gave to Double Barrel was a tad bit overzealous.
Clone literally solos M10 with whites of appropriate type faster than a player with a solid build and gear can.
I was hoping clone double barrel would have been maybe 2-4x what it was prior to this hotfix in conjunction with something to either encourage non launchers or discourage launchers. Now there is no reason to do anything but activate clone and wander around checking the loot.
It’s one thing to have clone be a solid contribution to output given investment, but to have it play the game for me? That just isn’t fun. Not at all. This is still a shooter mechanically. I want to have to use guns and aim a bit. Not press F once a fight and alt tab while I play with my dingleberries.
At least the clone struggles with certain launchers due to instant suicide, but it’s one shotting most targets with even mediocre clone weapons on M10.
Action skills went from almost irrelevant damage output barring ties that bind to utterly invalidating guns entirely.
1 Like
Don’t you think, its time to enjoy a bit of power instead of starting to criticise it right away again?
4 Likes
check the newer video lol, new hotfix today made clone = iron bear
1 Like
Its not a bit of power though. The clone is grossly overpowered. This oversight needs to be nipped in the bud before people get used to eating ice cream and cake everyday as their clone trivializes content.
This is bad for the game just like old yellowcake 1 shoting everything was bad for the game.
2 Likes
don worry guys these skills will be adjusted real soon
Then. get. specific.
This opaque “less!!!, moar!!!, lessss!!!, mmmmoaarrrr!!!, too muuuuuuch!!!” swinging leads forking nowhere.
Let’s start with you. What are numbers that would actually please you for certain clone versions. What would be your ideal “time to kill” then clone should have?
@CatBased_IED same question. And by the way you could probably mod a class mod with - 100% skill damage as well.
1 Like
I derive no enjoyment from a god mode cheat equivalent that plays the game for me. If you do, which is fine if that is your thing, I am beyond confident you can get yourself a modded COM with +1000%+ action skill damage and go right back to the current balancing should these truly game mechanic breaking overturned abilities be fixed.
Clone damage should deal 50% of weapon’s modified damage at no investment, 100% of your weapon’s modified damage if you invest fully all the way to double barrel, and around 150% your weapon’s modified damage with full investment into gear. This 5x multiplier I’m seeing right now is way beyond what any skill should offer, especially one that can be maintained indefinitely.
The augments themselves are pretty much on point as is. Binary System does about 500k a cyro swap against its weakness, dopplebanger is getting close to 2 million against its weakness and the deterrent shield is getting around 1 million damage against its weakness. There’s at least 100% multiplier available through gear( splash + action damage) to scale that up to acceptable levels. Not one shoting bosses or trash, but doing a fairly decent chunk when specced fully. If anything they just need bigger area of effect and shorter cast times. I would be more than happy with swapping more often if I did 1 million damage every 6 seconds on swap and actually hit more than 2 or 3 melee enemies.
I had already stated what I felt would work in the comment you replied to, but it’s only fair to clarify the vague other half of it.
The hotfix prior to this had my clone doing minor, but real damage to weak targets. It could even clear several trash mobs over the course of a long fight. I will use that as the reference point if that is OK.
I think somewhere between 2-4 times that would likely have been adequate, largely depending on if aiming to make clone viable with most weapons the clone AI can theoretically aim, or simply making a couple select wildly OP flavor of the week items workable like the pre nerf yellow cake.
4x of where we briefly were combined with a way to discourage only using the most optimal clone launchers/OP gear or a way to encourage using other guns would be the better paths. Opening more possibilities rather than aiming low and accepting highly limited options would be my personal goal.
Incentive would feel better than disincentive despite being more work.
With those goals, perhaps a flat rate buff of 2-3x the prior hotfix plus an additional scalar tied to the player actively using the same weapon as the clone. How exactly to implement that scalar, I don’t know. But it should be tied to actually using the weapon and consuming it’s ammo if that route is pursued, not just holding it. That will put a limit on the amount of extreme output from the clone with things like overtuned launchers or certain weapons which perform exceptionally well with clones like the sandhawk while still enabling their use along with the use of the average passable with effort in M10 but not flavor of the week level weapon too.
That scalar could go several times beyond the flat rate boost or possibly more depending on exactly how well it is tied to ammo consumption and player engagement so as to prohibit using exclusively an overpowered rocket, sniper, or shotgun without any added player input.
A lot of the exact value comes down to if and how that extra scaling layer were hypothetically implemented, but I strongly believe that is the best way to allow a wide variety of weapons to be worth using on the clone without making either all weapons self playing as we currently have nor limiting the selection to just the absolutely most overtuned items in game that also work with clone AI. It would encourage active player engagement with the clone and tie the effectiveness to player agency.
In terms of feel, assuming full investment in clone output from skills and slight extension of duration via skills, the clone should be able to use most passable weapons it can handle aiming to kill trash mobs at a modest pace and contribute to badasses/bosses. It should not be able to solo bosses unless the player is willing to take time out to really cheese it. The player really needs to work alongside the clone. Using a second scalar to increase the clone output would allow for more possibilities, but may well be beyond the scope of intended tweaks.
Some way of joining clone output to player agency is the only way to make a strong clone feel good imo.
1 Like
As I have been testing every ounce of the Clone for the past year, and were Willing to compromise alot, a 2x-3x damage multiple of what we had early yesterday would just Not cut it… it would only make the already usable two Launcher more effective, yes, But would even less encourage the use of other guns as they would still Fall of way to much in comparrison.
I do kind of agree, I mean, this hotfix, it is way more of what I Ever dreamed of, BUT there is a trade off now at Least, Because he can VERY easily one Shot himself (and the Boss at the same Time ofcourse 
) now using certain launchers. So it encourages the use of other weapons too, which is Quite enjoyable. It’s hard to Balance I think.
I would say exactly half of what we have now would work well for the forseeable Future. Let me have this fun time for a while until we get m20 Next month Ruining everything again xD
2 Likes