Dahl Allegiance Moze (WIP)

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

This thread is to provide and seek feedback on a Dahl allegiance build for Moze. This is something I’ve organically arrived at and am working on fine-tuning. The primary version I use is a 1HP Bloodletter/Deathless setup, but I’ll also discuss Sapper and Green Monster variants and how the setup would vary for those.

The 1HP version in its current state is M4 Takedown capable, but the Wotan fight is a serious challenge (I just did it solo today). Haven’t attempted on true takedown M4 yet.

The basic concept of the build is to leverage Dahl’s combination of accuracy, stability, and overall well-balanced weaponry. And we’re focusing on inflicting damage with guns; this is not a grenade, splash, or IB build, although you’ll see that IB can get some actual combat use.

The playstyle is to stay at medium-range, keeping close enough to consistently land crits but far enough that you don’t just have to face-tank everything. Iron Bear is used strategically to thin out trash mobs or safely weaken/eliminate the last tough enemy in a crowd (especially armored enemies). I generally hop out early (usually when the fuel bar is at least half-full).

This preserves fuel and thereby reduces cooldown, allowing you to keep ASE anoints active more consistently (Guardian rank and perks like Topped Off are enormously helpful).

An important consideration is the dearth of splash-damage-dealing Dahl guns. Sure, you could make a DW build with Short Fuse and just use whatever Dahl guns you wanted. But there are few Dahl guns that deal splash on their own; you’ll have very limited selection of guns that can have the splash anoints you’d want, and mainstay skills like MoD won’t be doing much.

So in short: no (or very little) DW tree. It doesn’t help us accomplish the goal of putting out lots of bullet-based DPS.

Our build will therefore be a SoR/BM spec.
Bottomless Mags:
Action Skills: 2x Minigun; General Winter/Exploding Bullets or 2x General Winter
5/5 Matched Set
5/5 Cloud of Lead
1/1 Redistribution
3/3 Stoke the Embers
5/5 Scorching RPMs
5/5 Iron Bank
1/1 Specialist Bear
1/1 Forge

SftR is fine but not needed. Redistribution and Forge maintain our ammo supply just fine. A no-IB variant could move the 1/1 specialist Bear here.

Specialist Bear makes IB viable against mobs even with no other investment in IB’s damage. I like the minigun anyway, so this seemed clear to me. You could put that point elsewhere if you want, but it is needed to reach the capstone.

You’ll see that at the end I’ll leave 4 discretionary skill points.

This allows you to get Click, Click if you like that skill. You could definitely time when you’re shooting and when you’re allowing the mag to refill in order to get the most out of this skill. I’m just not a big fan of the active management required to keep my mags low but not empty.

Shield of Retribution:
5/5 Armored Infantry
5/5 Drowning in Brass
3/3 Thin Red Line
1/1 Experimental Munitions
1/1 Full Can of Whoop-A**
3/3 Desperate Measures
2/3 Behind the Iron Curtain
5/5 Phalanx Doctrine

[I seem to recall hearing that Full Can is bugged. Is it? Should I drop this skill? Replacement point has several useful places it could go.]

With the 4 remaining points I see several reasonable choices:
Click, Click;
Grizzled;
Deadlines;
Vladof Ingenuity;
Behind the Iron Curtain (only one point needed to max out).

My own choice was to go 3/5 VI and 3/3 BtiC; more shield capacity, shock resist, and better recharge are always nice in a Deathless build.

As Moze experts have mentioned elsewhere, Grizzled is best with at least 3 points invested, but is useful if you want IB available more often as a panic button. This build can do without it, but I can’t say it’s a bad choice; more a matter of personal preference.

GEAR
WEAPONS

There are a lot of good choices amongst the available Dahl weaponry. My view of the best options if you can get them:

Good Juju - refilling your mag on kill and potential for huge critical damage synergizes well with all the gun damage buffs we have, but should push you to avoid Click Click. All the ammo regen you’ll be getting will help maintain the Crit bonus by preventing unwanted reloads. A strong candidate for your primary weapon in either variant of the build. Heck, if you’re dedicated and lucky enough you could farm a set of Jujus in all elements and make it the only gun you ever use.

Soulrender, Kaos, Warlord, Star Helix, Breath of the Dying - all reasonable choices and all do basically the same thing. (I really like Dahl ARs in BL3). Notably, the Helix can be used as a shotgun substitute at close range. The Warlord’s chance to not use ammo synergizes well and can help maintain max life-steal or damage in the Sapper/GM variant. I also think it’s just a genuinely underrated weapon.

Mngwa (alien-barrel ARs) may be worth considering:

Barrage - Burst-Fire only. It does not function well on its own in the Sapper/GM variant, but this can be overcome by use of a Hunter-Seeker as your grenade mod (the H-S projectiles count as gun damage). Not my personal choice, but its DPS is respectable so you might get some use out of it.

Hornet - deals splash. Burst only. Decent choice in 1HP variant but doesn’t work well with Sapper/Green Monster (needs more frequent reloading than most other options on this list). This shortcoming can be mitigated via use of a Hunter-Seeker (see above).

Nemesis - another gun I like a lot but that doesn’t always get a ton of love. Cannot be full-auto, but (credit again to @Adabiviak) you can hold the trigger down and the bursts will keep coming; see also comments above Re: Hunter-Seeker, which satisfy the demands of Sapper/Green Monster variants.

Crader’s EMP-5 - useful as a utility item (the extra move speed) but also has respectable DPS on non-armored targets. I like this gun quite a bit even though I don’t see it get a ton of mentions.

Night Hawkin - obviously. This thing shreds and everyone knows it. Better in 1HP variant because the best DPS It offers comes from burst-fire versions; and it goes through its magazine pretty fast. Hard to build up and maintain maximum damage or life-steal with Sapper/GM.

My current loadout uses a Breath, a Hawkin, a Kaos, and a Helix.

In selecting your weapons, seek guns with high card damage and large base mag sizes; inherent critical buffs are also useful. Higher accuracy, handling, and FR are all desirable but secondary. Reload speed should be ignored.

In general you should also prefer variants with a full-auto mode. This is even more important for Sapper/GM.

CLASS MOD:
Because this isn’t an IB build and doesn’t have Autobear, we won’t be using Raging Bear, Bear Trooper, or Rocketeer.

Blast Master is almost pointless since we won’t be doing very much splash damage.

Mind Sweeper - The skill spec I’ve given above doesn’t fit this COM, but it will perform well with Dahl weapons due to their combination of base damage, FR, and decent critical multiplier. I recommend changing your skill tree to a BM/DW spec if you choose this route.

Gear recommendation for artifact will also change if you choose a Mindsweeper spec.

I elected to go with a Bloodletter (and Deathless) which is why I have 3/3 TRL in the skill tree. An optimal roll on the COM would include at least 2, preferably 3 in DM and affixes such as Dahl critical damage, AR damage (these are the two best-possible rolls in my view), and any other buff to critical, weapon damage, or fire rate. We already have lots of gun damage buffs, so critical damage and fire rate are preferred.

The Sapper and Green Monster can both be used with the build, but if so I would recommend some changes in skill allocation (see below).

ARTIFACT:
Ice Breaker Deathless
This build can freeze stuff both with IB’s General Winter, with its own guns (Hawkin; Juju, Helix, Kaos, and Soulrender can all roll with Cryo), and with a Cryo Hex if that’s your chosen grenade.

There’s always a good argument for the Pearl. So yes, it could be used, and will be with Sapper/GM.

But I like the Deathless/Bloodletter combo, and Ice Breaker has to be the favorite prefix here; no obvious alternative occurs to me.

Good rolls include elemental damage(s), mag size, and any other useful DPS buff.

Moze has an easy time against flesh, so corrosive damage and/or shock damage to help tear down shields and armor are probably advantageous.

GRENADE:
Whatever you use should offer some kind of utility. CMTs don’t do much for this build, so I recommend a Quasar for crowd-control, an It’s Piss for debuffing enemies, or a Hex (Cryo to synergize with Ice-Breaker), especially if you’re using weapons with the consecutive-hits anoint.

The Tran-Fusion is also worth considering as a way to keep your shields up.

SHIELD:

Impaler! It’s the best!

No, not really.

There’s a degree of freedom available here; the build and playstyle don’t demand a specific shield but do prefer one that’s primarily a defensive bulwark. Keep in mind that Stop-Gap and Re-Charger don’t play well with 1HP.

BBB and Double-Downer are sensible choices. DD would allow you to play the build much more aggressively as FFYL isn’t so much of a problem.
You could also try an Old God for more damage, especially if you get one with good defensive affixes. However, this item is currently bugged to not drop with ASE damage anoints (console only?), so until that is fixed I’d say avoid it.

I personally like the Front-Loader. I found one with adaptive and Fortify, and another with adaptive and recharge. Those affixes are very helpful at keeping your shields up.

I recognize that others may view the Front-Loader as inferior. You may prefer a purple shield with very high capacity, or one with better recharge stats, and I wouldn’t argue with that.

ANOINTMENTS:
For optimal DPS, you want ASE shock and corrosive on the shield and grenade. However, you could also go more tanky with the 75% shields/health anoint on the shield.

On our guns, we want:
On a fire, rad or non-elemental weapon, ASE 100, IB 125 Fire, and consecutive hits are all viable. ASE 2 mags are also quite decent because they are effectively permanent.

If you go for CH, the optimal grenade is a Cryo Hex.

IB 125 Fire has the advantage of being consistent and effectively permanent because you’ll almost never need to reload, whereas CH will perform better in prolonged fights as long as you don’t let the buff reset to 0. Those who want to stay in the thick of the fight may favor CH for this reason.

On a weapon of any other element - especially shock and corrosive - go for ASE 100, CH, or ASE 2 mags. You’ll want as much matched-element damage as possible against armor and shields, so the IB 125 Fire anoint is inferior.

On a few items - Kaos and Hornet - it is possible to get splash anoints. The Kaos only deals splash on the on-death explosion (I think? Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), so its utility is limited. But a Hornet with a splash anoint may be effective as your weapon of choice against armored targets (Splash bonuses being a separate multiplier from gun damage).

I’m not aware of other good Dahl guns that can roll with splash anoints, but if there are any please feel free to fill in the gaps in my knowledge.

Sapper Variant:
With this COM you will obviously want to spec out of TRL, change your artifact, and put a point in Tenacious Defense. You will also want to spec out of Desperate Measures as the constant life-stealing makes that skill well-nigh useless.

You will now have a SoR tree with 5/5 in DiB, AI, VI, and PD; 3/3 in BtiC; 1/1 in EM; 1/1 in FCoWA or Security Bear; and 1/1 TD.

The optimal shield is a Band of Sitorak with an ASE damage anoint. The build will be very tanky, but via lifesteal instead of shields.

Your artifact should be a Pearl with FR and mag size buffs. I can’t think of another contender for the slot.

The Hex grenade becomes even more desirable in order to leverage the Pearl, but no longer needs to be Cryo.

You would also want to avoid CH anoints in this case; as I understand it the ASE 100 anoint produces a better interaction with the Pearl than CH.

You will also have to ensure that you stick with full-auto weapons that almost never require reloads. So no Hornet, no Nemesis. Maybe no Night Hawkin, either. (Warlord!)

Green Monster:
A BBB with the 75 health/shield anoint may now be your best option. You may also need to consider abandoning the idea of actually using IB in combat so it is available as a panic button.

I think you also have to stick with Deathless. This build still requires you to survive by keeping your shields up.

As a result, DM and TRL remain useful, so this variant doesn’t require a major change in your skill setup the way Sapper does.

As with Sapper, though, you’ll need to be more selective with your weapons: full-auto only, and you want to avoid needing to reload.

@fejorquerav provides an alternative spec with Green Monster:
Soulrenders in all weapon slots;
BBB with 75% health/shields anoint;
CMT with grenade-throw anoint;
Pearl;
Bottomless Mags to Forge; (not hugely different to the BM tree distribution recommended above, but SftR is taken and Click Click receives some investment).
Demolition Woman to 3/5 Vampyr (note: no PthP, Deadlines, or TCP).
SoR: Security Bear, AI, DiB, EM.
This version uses Railguns on IB.

1 Like
#2

Dude, I love this gun. I haven’t found a full-auto one either, but I can hold down the fire button, and the bursts come out on their own (so it’s like full-auto with little breaks; should satisfy the Sapper requirement of ‘trigger always down’).

Have you tried Dahl’s fine line of Mngwa’s? They’re way more stable at max sway than other alien-barrel ARs, and I think their range is longer too… very easy to keep Redistribution (and all the other crit bonuses for that matter) on deck.

#3

I’ll check out a Mngwa next chance I get.

Thanks for the suggestion!

#4

This is my DAHL Allegiance Moze
Soulrenders are beast on Moze (side weapons are nemesis, star helix and warlord, all with 125% incendiary bonus AEIB)

1 Like
#5

I like it! Seems from your vid that the exploding skulls from Soulrender don’t proc Vampyr; do you know if they can proc Fire in the Skag Den and/or Means of Destruction? I imagine they would because they explode, so splash damage; but I couldn’t quite pick out clear video evidence that the skulls were definitely doing either.

#6

Sadly the skulls don’t proc any skill afaik (it would be too OP imo), they’re raw splash elemental dmg (the same element as your gun) thats the downpoint on the soulrender, but they’re homing, they dot and the total dmg output is pretty high and even more if you use the Pearl, Wotan knows that :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

I found a couple of things you might be interested in? If not, no prob (thought of this post when I found 'em):

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#8

Ooh, I do like that Bloodletter. Thanks!

I’m on Xbox, GT DeadheadHix09 if you happen to be on Xbox too.

#9

oof, PC, sorry. :grimacing:

#10

A couple of hot takes:

– As far as I’ve been able to test, burst fire guns don’t interact with the Sapper class mod, even if it fires successive bursts when you hold down the trigger. The one way to overcome this is to use a Hunter Seeker grenade, which technically counts as gun damage – you just have to fire your weapon at least once after throwing it.

– The Nemesis does not come with full auto :frowning:

– Don’t underestimate the value of the Mind Sweeper – Dahl weapons are pinpoint accurate and have naturally high crit modifiers, so those micronades can hit pretty hard. It is pretty wild with the JuJu.

1 Like
#11

Yeah, I tried sapper with juju just holding the trigger. It was no bueno.

#12

Dahl’s non-alien barrel snipers are pretty good too, can come with full auto but semi auto deals good dmg too, I used to run SS and scaled TD with a kinetic 125% fire diamondback, tho it was not quite TTD material

#13

Their magazine sizes are so low that, even with Moze’s augments, you’d be resetting the heal rate on the Sapper with reloads, no? (Or is this just, “Dahl snipers don’t suck”, which is fine (am a subscriber myself)?)

#14

you don’t use Sapper and outlast your enemies with snipers, you use GM (or Marksman or another dmg COM) and blow their heads off xD

Dahl snipers have mag size of 10, 14 and 18, which can be increased to 24, 33, 43 through skills/COM/relic, that is more than enough if you are getting one crit every 3 secs

#15

Seems to me that snipers would work better with Mind Sweeper than either GM or Sapper…

Both of those rely on a hold-down-trigger-and-never-reload mechanic.

#16

Crit damage from 5 RPMs on a Green Monster is fantastic, then you get to hop in Bear and have splash boosts or throw grenades with boosted bonuses. A tactical sniper uses all their tools :slight_smile:

#17

So I was just messing around with the Soulrender on the TTD. Used the same gun – a corrosive Soulrender with 125% fire anoint – through the entire thing. The Mind Sweeper/cryo Hex was sufficient healing for everything except Wotan:

There is clearly room to optimize here. Juju for mobbing; Render for bossing. I am going to try out a consecutive hits Render to how it performs on bosses.

2 Likes
#18

Yep, pretty clearly Render and Juju appear to be the favorites here.

You aren’t the only one to notice it.

Will update OP to reflect this when I can

#19

Just want to throw it out there: The Hail. Not sure what kind of damage is on the card, but I know it heals you for a little bit and gets pretty large critical hit bonuses. Comes in all elements and easy to farm as well

#20

So my sign of a strong build is being able to skip the mecha and kraken spawns during the TTD and I’m just not managing to do it consistently using a consecutive hits shock Soulrender. If I could just figure that out, Dahl Moze will more or less be there.