Theorycrafted a new build

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

I’ve been thinking a good amount about Zane and what a good alternative would be to the Chain Zane, Redistributor, movement speed build which is currently so popular and came up with this:

Taking advantage of clone and barrier trees, we pick up Brain Freeze, Competent Competence, Calm, Cool, Collected, Synchronicity, Borrowed Time, Donnybrook, Fractal Frags along with a very powerful clone.

In terms the weapons/gear I’m thinking of ones which are new to the game (or new to me), recently buffed and good for Zane and his clone. I’m also trying to avoid some weapons I’ve grown a little tired of seeing (Cutsman, Brainstormer).

Pistols: Seventh Sense
SMGs: Hyperfocus, Redistributor, Night Hawkin, Oldridian
Assault Rifles: Soulrender, Carrier, Q-System, Bekah
Shotguns: Kill o’ the Wisp, Conference Call, Hellwalker
RPG: Scourge

Shield: Version 0.m, Frozen Heart, Snowshoe
Grenade: It’s Piss, Hex, Storm Front/Quasar
Mod: Seein’ Dead
Relic: Electric Banjo, Ice Breaker Victory Rush/Otto Idol

Mostly just theorycrafting at the moment, but I wanted to put it out there. What do you think? Would it be viable? Are there any major oversights or opportunities I’m missing?

I’m kind of excited to see what Seein’ Dead does for the kill skill side of Fractal Frags…

[Yulo97]

I guess this is a Dome - Clone build? You didn’t mention it but by the look of the skills looks like it.
Looks good, I also wanted to try a Dome - Clone build with the new Class mod, but having Salvation always up with the Seein’ dead class mod is much better.
Have you considered using the Pearl? Because not having Violent speed or Death follows close it’s a big deal for your damage output and that might help.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

Yes, dome and clone. You can see which augments I have picked from those which are highlighted at the sides of the trees. This could work with Conductor possibly as there are lots of skills bringing your health/shields up outside of Salvation and kill skills. I suppose a Conductor build could spec out of Salvation and take three points in Refreshment.

How does the Pearl work exactly? I’ve seen a lot of people talk about it, but do you lose all stacks the moment you cease to fire or upon reloading? It would seem any pause in DPS would remove the stacks which I think I would find rather annoying. Still, if it worked well it would make a nice replacement for the Electric Banjo.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

I just tried the build and it’s pretty great. Got up to the Dustbound Archives on M4 and it totally held its own. A good Conductor mod may actually surpass the Seein’ Dead in terms of usefulness in this build. Loved it

[Yulo97]

@damien_hine

How does the Pearl work exactly?

Any type of damage you deal is going to stack the Pearl, so your clone can stack it too. If an enemy is not damaged in 1 second, you lose your stacks.
So, with your clone you’re going to have the pearl always at max stacks.
Damage over time also stacks the damage.
And multi pellet guns can get multiple stacks from 1 shot.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

Very nice. I’m currently using an Ice Breaker Victory Rush which I am finding extremely effective. I think I’ll play the DLC until I naturally unlock the Pearl and then see which one I prefer. I already have a Pearl but Moze is greedy for it.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

Do you know if the Pearl would also give a damage boost to my clone and grenades?

[Jastorm187]

I ran this build for levelling and when I hit end game it suffered from not having a class mod. (Cold Warrior was the best one). I saw conductor and haven’t looked back. Played the new DLC on M4 and having a blast to finally have my clone and dome back. Although I play a non-movement version I like to call Back-to-Back Zane. I play with full green and red tree. (No violent momentum, no seeing dead, no drone). My build
I play with a void Rift and enemies get flung around so they can’t get close for too long. Swapping often and both you and clone getting amped from shield on the ground is so much fun. Still working on further gear but using seventh sense or a Maggie for zane, love throwing a hive or a cryo star helix. There are some points to move around. I took cold bore for weapon swap speed (hive is super slow to swap for clone). Took pocket full of grenades because without seeing dead I don’t get constant grenade Regen. I also like trick of the light for more cryo instead of pocket full of grenades for mobbing. I’m loving the playstyle still fine tuning though

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

Oh hey! Good to know I’m not the only one. May I ask, how does it handle against bosses? I thought about going into Refreshment instead of Salvation but then wouldn’t you be screwed against single targets who can’t freeze?

I might try the non-movement build but I fear being too anchored would be a downer on the fun factor. Each to their own, I suppose, but a major part of me putting this build together was asking how I could have fun with Zane (so far it didn’t disappoint!).

For gear, I would definitely suggest trying out the Scourge for your clone when mobbing and I’m thinking of the Ion Cannon for him for bossing. I tried the Frozen Heart shield but just didn’t find my shield going down enough to get many novas so I’ll have to keep thinking on that one (probably an offensive one though). It’s crossed my mind that you could use the Big Boom Blaster and then it would a) constantly be up and b) with a steady stream of grenades you could probably spec out of Pocket Full of Grenades and into, say, Trick of the Light.

[Jastorm187]

@damien_hine I feel the same way on the “good to know” comment. Looking at video’s and forums talking about “the best” builds always goes down hitman tree with drone and super speed. (Which I will say is probably going to be more powerful in the end but we are here for fun not power :-P)

Bosses:
Bosses are interesting with this build. Like I said still a work in progress and will probably post my final version when i’m done fleshing it out. However I beat all of the DLC2 Bosses on M4 using this build. However you will play slightly differently. More than likely this is the time you will pick up your barrier instead of leaving it on the ground to give you a little more mobility. Also the swapping with clone… do NOT forget how mobile this makes you. I can’t count how often I see a big boss slam coming at me and I swap places and keep firing. Also I have changed up gear for a rocket launcher and a big boom blaster for some bosses. (Like Slassing quest where he will charge through your barrier without a problem) You use the rocket launcher of choice and the shield will replenish your rockets and you give the clone an accurate CCC procing weapon for headshots and hopeful refresh (more on CCC below).

Calm Cool and Collected (CCC) instead of salvation.

1. CCC can proc on enemies without freezing them by using brain freeze. This works on bosses, anointed and other enemies who won’t freeze. Hit them in the head enough with full shields/health and your skills will refresh.
2. If you can’t quite get these type of things, with my build your barrier and clone come back so fast you are only exposed for a few seconds anyway. (A stop gap shield works wonders here… as with distributed denial, you get immunity when the barrier, your clone’s shield and your shield fail)

Gear Questions:

1. I have tried the scourge/ion cannon and they are powerhouses in the hands of the clone… however if there are melee mobs running around and they run up to you the clone will shoot them an potentially kill himself. (And you if you are back to back). Also the scourge is best used at a distance and isn’t as effective in close… and the clone aims DIRECTLY at them so I found the hive safer and just as damaging in some instances with Zero chance of self death. However not as good at long range so depends on the fight.
2. While we are on clone weapons… a good alt to rocket launchers are actually shotguns. The lob is fantastic in the clone’s hands for pure damage. Also the Flama Diddle is actually amazing too. Its super accurate even at range, clone has a good fire rate with it, has good damage and will even proc CCC with it quite often.
3. Shields: Yes the nova doesn’t go off often. Which is why I chose the void rift over the Snowshoe. Void rift fires seeking cold spikes when taking damage, but when depleted also has a nova affect. So best of both worlds, it also has a decent capacity and recharge for when you do get hit. Big Boom Blaster is another fantastic shield as well… have used it and works fantastic.
   You are correct that with Big Boom I could switch out Pocket full of grenades for Trick and get that 30+% more cryo damage.

[Superfr34k (SteJay)]

In another thread the storm was mentioned for proccing ccc and/or good misfortune with the clone and I have to say its really damn good. I think the void rift is best in slot for your build. Another thing I could mention is rough rider which I was running when I was running dome-clone (and re-router but that was not that exciting) . When your heal is based on max life you should try to have as much of it as possible. The bis anoint on shield should probably be 3% of max life as heal when clone is up.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

I just had another play session and I think Seein’ Dead is superior to Conductor. The prospect of having extra points in Donnybrook, along with a 25% boost and it being in use practically all the time is simply too good to pass up.

I struggled more on this session and felt a little underpowered compared to last time, although that might have been because my lv.53 weapons were feeling those extra levels. Anyway, I now have him at 57 with upgraded gear so that should help.

I’m terms of the build, I am thinking of leaving behind the Hitman tree entirely in favour of red and green with the points going into Trick of the Light, Praemunitus, a second capstone and extra survival. Let’s see how that goes next time I play.

Loving all the suggestions for gear. Shall have to see if I can get an on-level Void Rift. For my new 57 loadout, I intend to try the Hyperfocus, Soulrender, Hellwalker and Scourge.

[Superfr34k (SteJay)]

I don’t know if that turns out to be an improvement. I’d say either switch to seein dead or empty the hitman tree. Not both. If you go for seein dead I would suggest you take 2 points out of pocket full of grenades and maybe take a point or two out of life leech if you want to fill up trick the light. And add futility belt. If you stick to conductor and get rid of hitman you could get rid of supersonic man and maybe find some damage in the second capstone. I wonder how it turns out.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

Life leech? Do you mean Salvation?

I think I’m going to go with this:

Void Rift
Storm Front/Quasar/It’s Piss
Seein’ Dead
Pearl of Ineffable Knowledge

Clone weapon: Scourge/Hive/Ion Cannon/Storm

I’ll figure out the other guns by trying stuff out and seeing what I like.

[Jastorm187]

I agree with @Superfr34k, if you are going seeing dead spend the points in hitman. If you are looking for something different than chain Zane then that’s what I’m offering. Refreshment can act as all the health steal you need. Nerves of steel is underated. It allows you to practically snipe with multiple pellot guns (Maggie, mashers, shotguns). Which price brainfreeze on one to two shots.

I think a big question is what content are you focused on and are you willing to play a lower power build to add some variation to you play style.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

I interpreted @Superfr34k’s post differently. I thought he was suggesting two pathways for development:
a) Take Seein’ Dead, in which case take points out of Pocket Full of Grenades and Salvation to put them into Trick of the Light and Futility Belt.
Or b) Spec out of Hitman, in which case think about using the Conductor, take the second capstone and see if I can make up the damage elsewhere.

Did I misunderstands? At the moment I’m thinking of option a as I get to have Donnybrook up continually and I’m not so interested in Distributed Denial.

One thing I’m thinking about, though, is would a dome barrier without the capstone prevent Void Rift from sending out the ice shards? Presumably I myself would need to be hit to emit those. In which case, possibly the capstone would be worth taking?

[Superfr34k (SteJay)]

You understood right.
Me personally, I don’t like refreshment and with seein dead in particular I would advise to rather put that point to salvation (yeah, that’s the “leech” skill I forgot the name of) or reduce incoming damage with stiff upper lip (works with futility belt, maybe?) then put the points from refreshment and hearty stock in there.

Yeah I was thinking of maybe getting big boom blaster on your barrier and then shock ion cannon everything to dust with conductor.

Ps: I don’t think you need nerves of steel since the barrier anoint is what you should go for damage-wise anyway and it already has 60% accuracy.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

I don’t understand. Right now there aren’t enough skill points to take Distributed Denial, Double Barrel and Salvation at the same time…

I think taking Salvation is essential, especially with extended boss fights, so I’m forgoing Distributed Denial in favour of it and taking Seein’ Dead so it can always be active. That being said, CCC is capable of triggering health/shield regen, so maybe I can give up Seein’ Dead…?

I dunno, I’ll just jig around gear and skill points over the next few days and figure out a nice medium. ISo long as it can handle M4 and manage the circles of slaughter and the Takedown, I don’t think it needs to be any better than that.

[Superfr34k (SteJay)]

Salvation with seeing dead

No hitman and DD with conductor

That’s what I meant.

[damien_hine (EpicDamo)]

That makes sense. I think on balance the Seein’ Dead gives the greater benefit. With it, you can heal at any time, have Donnybrook enhanced and always active and, if it also procs Futility Belt, then you’ll never be hit by a DOT. It’s hard to see how the Conductor would compete. For one thing, boss encounters would be harder without as much survivability.