(almost) all Iron Bear weapons need buffs

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

The default rocket pods are fine. They deal good damage, got decent accuracy, good range, very good fire rate, can effectively hit critical spots to kill enemies quickly and given the fact they’re dealing explosive damage they’re not even situational etc.

However that’s pretty much the only Iron Bear weapon that universally works on Mayhem4 making all the other weapons seem pointless.

Normal mini gun: No splash damage, high fuel consumption, much lower damage/damage per second. Result: Useless.

Cryo mini gun: No splash, not enough damage generally, elemental weapon making it overall situational. Result: Useless.

Explosive mini gun: Takes a while before you can even start shooting unlike the default rocket pods, overheats quickly, takes too long to cool down, deals the same damage per shot as the rocket pods BUT deals by far less damage per second due to the fact the rocket pods shoot in 3 rocket bursts. Result: Useless.

Salamander flamethrower (all variations): Forces you to fight at close distances causing Iron Bear to get damaged quickly by mobs and stronger enemies, deals pretty much no damage on Mayhem 4 despite the highly limited range and is situational due to the element. Result: Useless.

Grenade Launcher (all variations): Good overall damage and good splash range. However slow fire rate, can not EFFECTIVELY critical-shoot enemies unlike the default rocket pods, deals by far less damage per second due to the much slower fire rate, limited range and limited accuarcy. Therefore result: Useless.

Debuff rockets: The debuff is not strong enough, the reload speed is ridiculously long, worse accuracy than default rocket pods, low magazine size. Result: Useless.

Nuke rockets: 1 shot magazine, low damage, elemental/situational, very slow reload, extreme fuel consumption, can’t even one-shot-kill small enemies. Result: Useless.

Railgun (fire): Elemental/situational, high damage, no splash bonus, slow recharge speed, requires 100% precision. Result: Not completely pointless but way too situational compared to the default rocket pods.

Railgun (electricity): Works like an oversized Brainstormer which is nice, no splash bonus, slow recharge speed, elemental/situational, requires 100% precision. Result: Not completely pointless but very situational just like the fire railgun and therefore just worse than the default rocket pods… Again.

Railgun (corrosive): 3 shot bursts, splash bonus, elemental/situational, currently bugged causing crazy high fuel consumption, decent damage. Result: Decent but still much worse than using default rocket pods and thus kinda pointless.

Iron Fist (all variations): Forces you to attack one enemy at a time just like the Salamander causing Iron Bear to take damage quickly, deals little to no damage on mayhem 4, no splash bonus, very slow attack rate. Result: More than useless.

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#2

You’re not completely wrong… but not completely right either.

The vanquisher rockets have the strongest, burst damage by far … but that dps tanks as soon as you fire your first volley and suffer thru the looooong reload.

At that point, the explosive minis outshine it. Cryo miniguns are very strong against armor and freezing a rocket spamming badass is worth its weight in gold.

I think your underestimating explosive and cryo mini combo, but you are absolutely correct about al other weapons . They suck

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#3

Don’t get me wrong I know there are moments where a cryo/explosive mini gun combo seems to do really well but after 500 hours of testing all the weapons I keep thinking that I’m sort of limiting Iron Bear’s potential if I choose anything but the default vanquisher rocket pods which is a little boring at times.

I do enjoy using the explosive mini gun as well however once it overheats it feels like I just have to wait ages before I can effectively shoot again thus limiting the fun factor.

As for the other weapons I’m glad you agree. Hopefully the developers make them viable in the future. I would really like to use all weapons of Iron Bear without feeling like I’m “doing something wrong” haha…

#4

A major drawback that you nailed on the head is that on M4, you HAVE to pick splash only weapons because otherwise IB wont last literally 10 seconds if even that. So even if they DO buff their damage I’d STILL be forced to pick splash weapons just to keep IB alive . This essentially makes half his weapons completely useless

Simple solution : have all IB damage heal not just splash damage

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#5

Nah, have all IB weapons deal splash damage.

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#6

With Desperate Messures at Max and 4 of 3 points I don’t have any trouble. I understand that mu build increases IBs damage by a large amount but I am able to one shot most enemies with fire rail guns and a burst of Corrosive tears though most enemies upon detonation. If your playing end game with no skills to benefit IBs offence then you probably shouldn’t be using him as an attack tool. Instead make use of him like a support or defensive tool to give you as Moze and easier time dispatching enemies. If your in demolition woman yes Pods are by far the best with all there benefits. One of the main issues with the mid trees mini gun and flamethrower is the fact that the tree only buffs ROF for Bear and fire damage. Maybe if they added a COM that give Iron Bear unlimited fuel for a few seconds after landing a crit that buffs skill in the mid tree we would see a Botemless mags Moze that doesn’t just jump out after 2 seconds.

#7

How are you using the Rocket Pods if your concerned with downtime of the hard points? The Explosive Miniguns cooldown so much quicker than the Rocket Pods reload, nobody staying in the mech for more than a few seconds even bothers with the Rocket Pods. Their dps is extremely low when you factor in the reload. Dual Explosive Miniguns (or one combined with a Cryo Minigun if your build struggles against armour) fire longer, reload faster, are more accurate, use less fuel, have comparable damage to the pods, and have significantly higher dps after like 6 seconds of use.

Regardless, I agree most of IB’s hard points are completely useless. I feel like I remember reading that the Vampyr addition was a temporary fix but I can’t remember if that was real or my own mind trying to make an excuse for such a strange choice. It was such a huge bandage I can’t accept that it was their final solution for IB.

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#8

It seems like they’ve been gradually working their way through Iron Bear’s weapons, making them better. The Salamander and the Bear Fist still need some love, but I’m happy with the other changes they’ve made so far.

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#9

I don’t know about that man. Ever since I did that All-In-Bear TTD run I’ve been using that build for a lot of stuff lately. Slaughter Shafts/Boss Farming etc. I’ve been making comparisons between Rocket Pods and EB a lot. In all cases I keep finding that I prefer Rocket Pods by a large margin. If you are holding the trigger with no concerns then yeah I guess EB is the bet. But if you are trying to manage your heat/ammo and being careful with aim then Rocket Pods I find to be far superior in every single case. Not only can I burst a target much quicker, but they keep up with Vampyr healing much better. They just can’t be ‘trigger spammed’ you have to be deliberate with the shooting.

I’ll use an example from today since I did a comparison a bit ago. Against Warden, not only can I kill him faster consistently with Rocket Pods then EB but I can outheal his Rocket Salvo face tanking it with RP where EB I lost bear. And in the end my fuel has been just about the same level after kill.

I still take EB for some reasons, namely if I need a precision range option. (against deathballs in TD is a good example) but even then, Sabot Rounds seems to be a clear winner for me.

-EDIT I do have to add that for Auto Bear EB or Sabot is miles better then RP, Autobear sucks with pods.

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#10

I probably should’ve clarified for the situations I’m talking about. In non-stop endgame mobbing situations, I would like to see rocket pods out dps explosive miniguns. It’s impossible, even timing the Pods it just is mathematically impossible. Feel-wise sure, but actual hard numbers it can’t be. The time it takes to reload a single set of rockets will slow your dps the exact same amount as firing them all off and waiting for them to fully reload. The latter is not going to work out well for IB’s sustain but dps-wise it’s the exact same. So while fuel drain is higher per rocket volley, the dps per volley is also higher. This will make your remaining fuel about the same for both hard points against a boss like Warden. But Dead Lines needs to be taken into consideration for mobbing. Because it’s effects are diminishing, the Pods will hold up for a few enemies and then the fuel drain will come back into full force. The miniguns use fuel much slower and won’t have such a steep drop off after Dead Lines stops being effective.

The Explosive Miniguns cooldown so much quicker. Now, if we consider the realistic scenario which you will be taking breaks as you travel toward new enemies, you may find you can reload enough Pods to not have any perceived downtime for reloads. However, with the Explosive Miniguns, their accuracy allows you to travel and fire at the same time so your dps still remains more constant. Admittedly this requires accuracy while double jumping though.

I agree the Sabots are pretty nice, I haven’t tried them since recent hot fixes so I can’t totally speak to them (I forget what was even changed). But prior to the hotfixes I didn’t find the dps was nearly high enough against non-armoured enemies to bother forcing my build high enough in SoR to get them unlocked. I haven’t had much trouble with my builds to tear through armour with EB. I do like the feel of Sabot rounds though, and they have a pretty solid reload.

I read EB were nerfed (or a bug fixed) that was causing them to do extra damage. Haven’t played since that either, but if it is the extra damage I’m thinking of it’s not substantial enough to matter.

Agreed.

edit - also Kab, are you using DiB?

#11

Yes.

I’m just trying to point out just because the out of game math says one thing doesn’t mean it’s the best thing in gameplay. When I use Rocket Pods in SS I have less issues keeping bear healed and I find I can much easier take out priority targets when I need to. I also don’t wait for full reloads I wait for enough to take out my next target but mostly I never even need to wait on anything since RP can kill things so much quicker as long as I’m not missing crits and not spamming more shots then needed for my targets. As I mentioned it’s a difference in playstyle. If you can manage your ammo well and not overkill things then RP seems to work better for me personally and theres not much more ‘non-stop end game mobbing’ then SS or True Takedown both of which I personally prefer rocket pods. And that’s because I can take out each intended target quicker and I’m personally very disciplined with my shots as to not waste. So I rarely fully empty my pods and almost never sit there waiting for a full reload. Where when I use EB I do empty my mags because it takes the full mag + more sometimes to kill things RP can dispatch easily (Badass tinks is a good example - where it takes me just a few salvo of RP but a full mag+ of EB to kill one). I find I get stuck in the loop of fire/wait/fire/wait on the end of my mag much more often with EB then RP because of that.

In very long mobbing scenarios EB does edge out RP in fuel I’ll give you that but I’m also using Raging Bear + 5 in Deadlines so it’s less of an issue.

But again, there are some things I do prefer EB for Death orbs/Wardogs/Heavies being good examples due to the precision at range.

I’m not saying one or the other is better. What I’m arguing is this:

Oh and about Sabot, right now they are bugged to use more fuel then normal so that sucks. But overall I find they outdamage both Pods and Explosive Bullets in most scenarios even against flesh oddly enough.

#12

Fair enough. Personal preference is always a thing of course. I was referring to numbers, which I can agree isn’t always everything. I find using DiB with EB (among other IB boosts) I kill the tinks in a few shots, nowhere near 2 full magazines.

Well… I mean this is why I said I should have been a little more specific. I was talking about optimal dps builds that utilize IB, not full on IB Raging Bear builds with a specific roll haha. Explosive Miniguns are actually way worse with Raging Bear. EB are top notch for Blast Master.

Since the last few hotfixes, or always? Before the hotfixes I found them mostly underwhelming dps wise, but useful for how long they last and healing. Plus they’re fun to use.

#13

I only really started messing with them a lot (outside of pure vs armor situations) very recently within the last couple hotfixes. I don’t know why but against anything but heavy shields they seem to just be wrecking. The fuel use right now is a problem though.

#14

Interesting. I’ll have to give them a shot again. I always found it a bit annoying to spec to get Sabot Rounds for my playstyle so I didn’t get a whole lot of play time with them, not enough to talk too much about them anyway.

Maybe they messed up some numbers or something with the hotfix. Though I know @sammantixbb always liked using them.

I sometimes wonder if there’s huge differences with stuff between ps4 and pc or something, because they always felt very soft hitting to me, like I had to spam the hell out of them to keep IB alive and kill anything.

I’ll find out soon when I boot up bl3 on pc next week.

#15

I honestly think they changed somehow recently because like you I always felt them to be pretty underwhelming unless I was using them against something that was pure armor. But recently I used them and was shocked at the damage they were doing. Also very strong as an Auto Bear weapon.

#16

YOU’RE COMING TO THE DARKSIDE, HURD?

But yeah. Let’s see. Crits on flesh with Sabot. Just the Corrosive part, can be in excess of 83k with my spec. The non crits can deal 31k I think to a wide area. Drop three of those babies into a crowd and they alllll melt.

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#17

It’s much better if you’re taking them for a full IB build because you don’t need to take Short Fuse. But it’s still a tradeoff between speccing into it or going 5/5 Vampyr because you can’t do both and still take Specialist Bear.

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#18

I’ll blame @Prismatic for mentioning it’s 50% off on Steam. I had no intention of owning 2 versions of the game, with full dlc. But I bought a new pc and couldn’t resist.

I’m going to revisit the Sabots.

I may or may not have totally forgot about not needing SF with a max up time IB build. I almost never do that, I tend to strike a balance between up time and on foot. It’s extremely hard to make the sacrifice to get them in a SF build.

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#19

We’ll find a way to get you all the necessary toys to make it work :slight_smile:

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#20

Secretly I’m a bad influence on people. :smile:

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