I am originally an Amara main that has beaten the game with all the vault hunters except Moze and I am trying to see what I want to do with her when I start my play through with her. I see some of her skills can possibly synergize with certain artifacts but I’m not sure if the grave is one of them. I know most go last stand but I want to know if her thin red line skill synergizes with that item. I’ve scoured the topics and don’t see an answer has anyone tested it yet? If not I can it’s just I have to level her to 53 before I will have an answer…
It should just work, like if you had 5+ points in that skill all of graves benefits will be always on
1 Like
Or a Front Loader shield.
2 Likes
Yes , I use Grave and front loader to save points in Thin Red Line … if not you need at least 5 points in TRL to get to 1 HP for all the benefits.
1 Like
Thanks guys appreciate the help 
Let me clarify … my last statement may be confusing. You can only put 3 points in TRL, I had +2 from a cmod. That have me 1 HP. But with the front loader you only need 2 points in TRL for 1 HP.
1 Like
Oh ok I was just looking at that I just assumed you meant 3 naturally thanks
You can get better rolls on other relics, but grave is a great place to start if you don’t have anything better.
I have seen AOE damage on artifacts and specific weapon buffs , but never a +weapon damage.
It’s always confused me when people are like God Roll over a cmod with +%30 weapon damage, but scoff at the Grave with +20.
Especially with the buffs going on right now , you may be rolling with a pistol today and a shotgun next Thursday.
1 Like
Yeah it’s a weird meta happening where old stuff gets outdated constantly and your using different gear almost every week. I’m just looking for some consistency a little bit but who knows what build my Moze will have by the time I get her to 53 the grave maybe fully irrelevant by next week and I’ll have to find a new synergy.
While I don’t necessarily see the Weapon Damage roll on coms being godly. I do think it’s a lot better than a grave. The bonus is higher and it is unconditional. Moze lacks proper unconditional gun damage. She either requires kills or to reduce health for damage. A roll like this on the com fills that gap without creating a weakness.
The second and in my opinion bigger issue with the grave is that it goes up against better relics. Victory Rush as v1 damage is brilliant on Moze, as are prefixes like last stand and snowdrift. These parts on an artifact are all generally worth more to Moze than 20% weapon damage.
And if we’re talking Weapon Type damage like shotgun damage vs the grave the it’s even more 1 sided. That’s a v2 bonus and is a part of the formula Moze gets nearly nothing in. V2 bonus is also double dipped by things like Short Fuse or Mind Sweeper where as the Grave is not.
2 Likes
This is what I meant, but a far better explanation.
1 Like
One of the reason you won’t see most people using Thin Red line with anything other than a Deathless is because of how powerful the interaction is between the two. Thin Red Line is a Numaric boost to your Shields based on a percent of your Max HP. This means instead of the 100% Shield benefit being diluted by several other percentage based increases to Shields it gains far greater benefit.
Quick break down:
You have 1000 hp. Your shield is 1500. Thin red line adds 200 shields. Now your at 1700 shields. You equip a Deathless doubling your shield. Your shield is now 3400. So basicly that 200 shields you go to increase the value of all % based shield increases. Normally what happens when you add multiple % based increases it applies them in sequence instead of adding them all up and then applying the %.
The Grave is still not an awful relic but Despret Massures with Bloodletter deathless is still more powerful as Desprate measures is always at max and it’s alot more guns damage.
As is, I am running 30 - 100 k shields, (grave artifact helps me get to 100k, 20pct faster. On M4 the only thing I have to worry about is getting one shotted.
So I feel I am good on shields.
Desperate measures doesn’t require a deathless to reach it’s full benefit. Front loader and thin red line can also get there.
I honestly am gonna have to find one really good roll deathless to give up %20 weapon damage and %15 splash damage, that applies to IB and grenades as well.
+36% AOE
+18%(weapon of your choice)Damage
+31% grenade damage
And 100% more shields?
Even without the third roll, a deathless would be the better option.
2 Likes
The Grave requires Front Loader, while Deathless free your shield slot by reserving the health.
Also, the rolls are > than the Grave boosts, so if you roll a Deathless with AoE and Gun Damage it is already better.
That said, you can totally use the Grave until a good Deathless drop for you. 
2 Likes