Seein Dead kinda feels like what Seein Red should've been

Borderlands 3 Zane the Operative
#1

It’s just so much more consistent, I can’t see myself going back to an Infiltrator mod while facing a boss.

Either you minimize uptime on AS’s to trigger Seein Red repeatedly, run Seein Dead, or just put up with less DPS by forcing mob spawns in boss fights for actual kill skill activations.

Am I wrong? I’ve found the new COM to be that much better that I can’t justify going back to barely surviving with Infiltrator or trading survivability for damage with something else, when this thing offers both.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want this com to be nerfed or anything. I want Zane to have better skills.

2 Likes
Gearbox Greatest Nerfs
#2

you are not wrong,all hail only 1 com zane master race don forget a few guns that will also effortlessly level you from 50 to 60 so you can never pick up another piece of gear during your whole leveling process. good game gut design

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#3

The new class mod did the unthinkable and made me bored as ■■■■ of Zane within a few days. After walking all over Wotan like he was a little baby pissant in M4 it just got zzzzzz. Now I’m back to playing the last VH that is any sort of difficult (Moze).

I know you can say just don’t use it, but that’s not how it works. When this is what’s available it’s what a person is drawn to use. If it’s uninteresting and too easy, then it’s boring. It feels stupid to purposely gimp yourself. Make the game interesting instead pls.

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#4

Personally, I’m enjoying the hell out of the new class mod. Zane was my first to 50, with all four classes at 50. I was able to solo all content before the DLC, but it was a bit more of a process. Satisfying in the sense of accomplishment, but not joyful in the process. With the new class mod, more build types feel fun to me. Trial of Fervor, Takedown, Slaughter Shaft, etc are also substantially more fun for me.

IMO, the best approach is to deliver more good alternatives to Seein Dead, rather than nerfing it. For example, Antifreeze working while moving instead of while jumping or sliding, becomes very appealing. People who want to slide would still get extra value out of adding a snowdrift, by way of Violent Momentum. Those who don’t like sliding or jumping for damage, wouldn’t have to. Still promotes a run & gun style, and works quite well with a variety of builds.

There are many potent, creative ways to go with class mods. We just haven’t seen many for Zane, yet.

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#5

This class mod gives Zane so many more options in gun usuage and builds.

We should be happy.

Those that dont like it, feel free to use your other class mods then upload a video of you taking down wotan with a techspert and we will bow to your greatness.

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#6

I am very happy about it. Love that my fave boyo is consistent now.

I’m just saying that it feels necessary because it makes up for skills and trees that clash.

Seein Red conflicts with any skill that extends action skill duration, for example, because activating them is what triggers kill skills when there’s no trash mobs around.

1 Like
#7

It’s just boring that “kill skills” are now “do absolutely nothing and be op skills”. Yeah he can do a bunch of no effort builds now so I guess all the people who like to auto-win are happy. But its boring and stupid that its 10x better then every other class mod as well. Not to mention it’s literally pay-to-win lmao. ■■■■ it though, forget fixing Zane made everyone happy by letting them buy ezmode in a class mod.

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#8

I don’t get how they messed it up, Krieg had a kill skill tree and it was his most consistent.

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#9

Ive never heard of someone speaking about PvE and “pay to win” at the same time.

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#11

Conversely, I’ve heard it used to describe DS3’s 2nd dlc because it had a bunch of +3 rings.

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#12

Just trying to point out that the folk who maybe can’t afford DLC still play the same old Zane and don’t have the luxury of all these super diverse ezmode builds ya’ll so happy about. It’s not really fair to sit there and say Zane is so good now when only people who paid extra for DLC get to experience that. So yea, “pay to win” as a general statement covers that sentiment.

Call me elitist all you want but you guys are missing my point that they didn’t fix Zane at all and just blinded everyone with an ezmode com that does nothing to the base class and still leaves him a half broken mess and on top of that is boring as ■■■■ because it literally gives you every kill skill without doing anything but have a sntl out not only that 100% AS uptime for doing absolutely nothing wooohoo. Why not just put “kill” skills now as his base stats because that’s what it does, like wtf? Keep being happy now you don’t have to actually try to do anything but its not healthy for the VH or the game at all. :frowning:

I’d also love to see all these amazing diverse and fun builds you guys talking smack to me have come up with and shared with the community? I know I’ve shared a couple. Besides that and Thicc’s banjo I aint seein ■■■■.

Maybe that’s it you just don’t want your “dont even have to look at half the enemies I killed while proccing AS uptime 100%” redis + banjo ezmode build to get nerfed. You may enjoy this bs but for me it ruined a fun class.

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#13

So what should happen to the class mod to make you being fine with it?

1 Like
#14

It should be fixed to match the text on it. So it says “Whenever Zane deals damage to an enemy with his weapons”. If it followed that text, I would be completely fine with it. I do also find the fact that it completely invalidates the diminishing returns of Good Misfortune silly but I’m not sure how they could fix it.

1 Like
#15

I think nobody wants an exploitive com. So we should be able to use that as even ground. The deminising returns thing is probably a rounding up thing. Me personally, I like the idea of the com and have the most fun I’ve ever had with it. Even though its paywalled

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#16

Naw it’s because it procs GM over and over as a fresh proc. So the diminishing return never comes into play as it’s being refreshed over and over.

1 Like
#17

Then it would start doing big jumps again, which it does not as far as I see. Or does it? Even then it could also be a timer on the skill how long the deminising lasts. Anyhow if there’s something to fix they’ll fix it. They’re not a crunch studio so they’ll need a bit of time I guess.

1 Like
#18

Try using something like a Dictator that’s going to re-proc it easily. You can fill your entire AS bar from empty to full in one spray.

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#19

The krieg mechanics rewarded very well for death. The bloodlust mechanics were fantastic. I believe that with the level increases and class mod points increase this reward will come.

1 Like
#20

I mean…

That was the Doppelganger’s whole gimmick, and they obviously copied the concept over to Zane. And Timmy is considered by many to be one of the best designed characters in the franchise.

Whether you enjoy it or not is totally up to individual taste. However, I think it’s fair to say that if the community’s taste has remained similar between TPS and now, most people love Seein Dead precisely because it gives Zane 24/7 kills skills like Jack.

Also, these kinds of mods do enable a lot of build diversity just by virtue of supplying so much power. Look at Driver Amara and how many raid capable builds you can make from that COM. It does limit you to one blueprint, but there is a lot you can design from there.

4 Likes
#21

Can we please calm down on the “this class mod is game breaking” until Gearbox fixes the other things with the game? If Gearbox actually does decide to devote resources to nerfing this class mod, it’ll take away development from lag, future dlc’s, other actually relevant things. And lord knows this game doesn’t need anymore nerfs to characters/builds.

3 Likes