Gunner Community Issue Compendium

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

In the current state of Borderlands 3 (as of early January 2020), Moze is considered by many to be the “weakest” of the Vault Hunters. Many attribute this to the lack of sustainability in terms of survival, as well as issues with anointments, Iron Bear, and skills that lack synergy or a worthy use. In the hopes of improving the Gunner’s situation, this list is created. Rather than having them float around the corners of the forum, I’ve gone around and collected issues/solutions that I’ve seen repeatedly pop up in the Moze forum in the hopes that we can rub our brain cells together and help address the issues that plague Moze.

If you don’t see an issue that you believe should be addressed, or believe you have a good solution to a raised issue, speak up about it. It isn’t limited to one solution per problem.

SURVIVABILITY

Problem: High Mayhem levels make it easy to kill oneself with Splash Damage, especially with “Torgue Cross Promotion” increasing splash damage radius.
Propositions:

  • Add splash damage resistance to one of Moze’s skills.

Problem: “Tenacious Defense” does not synergize well with low-hp builds.
Propositions:

  • Change the fully-depleted requirement to require 50%~75% of total shields be depleted instead (add a cooldown if necessary.)
  • Make it function as a sort of buffer if shields are depleted (If shield equals 100, and an attack equals 120 and would deplete the shield, Tenacious Defense acts as an extra 40 shield)
  • Add a function to prevent damage to Moze’s health bar if Tenacious Defense activates.
  • Change the gun damage bonus to “v2” damage.

Problem: “Thin Red Line” and other methods that reserve health below 50% disable health-gating on Moze.
Propositions:

  • Attach an effect to one of the Shield of Retribution skills that prevents excess damage from rolling over into the health pool.

Problem: “Behind the Iron Curtain” is inefficient due to the rest of the skill tree increasing shield capacity more than this skill can keep up with.
Propositions:

  • Increase the recharge rate based on a percentage of your shield capacity instead of increasing the shield’s innate recharge rate.
  • Heavily increase the recharge rate bonus. (Bonuses were previously buffed on April 2nd, 2020.)

Other Survivability Propositions:

  • Add increased Shield Regeneration Rate to “Vladof Ingenuity”. Added on April 23rd, 2020.
  • Add an effect that restores health based on incendiary damage dealt to “Selfless Vengeance”.
  • Add an effect that restores health based on incendiary damage dealt to “Cloud of Lead”.
  • Add a life-steal effect to “Scrappy” for three seconds upon switching weapons.
  • Make “Security Bear” activate on Action Skill start and not be delayed for a few seconds.
  • Add an indicator the the HUD indicating the shield strength of “Security Bear”.
  • Allow “Security Bear” to reactivate while Auto Bear is active.
  • Add radiation resistance to “Vladof Ingenuity”.
  • Add a passive health regeneration and reduces shield delay to nearby teammates while “Security Bear” is active.
  • Add health regeneration to “Forge”.
  • Add (Moze) damage reduction to “Stainless Steel Bear”.

SKILLS

Problem: “Selfless Vengeance” does not synergize well with the Bottomless Mags Tree, and the bonus is weak.
Propositions:

  • Change the Incendiary bonus to scale in strength with how long it has been since you last reloaded.
  • Add a considerable reload speed bonus.
  • Replace health penalty with an incendiary Damage-over-Time applied to Moze (with bonus incendiary damage extended to teammates whenever Moze is on fire).

Problem: “Full-Can of Whoop-Ass” can interfere with a teammate’s build if they are intentionally depleting their shield for melee damage bonuses.
Propositions:

  • Limit the effect to Iron Bear’s vicinity, or change the effect to increase teammate recharge rate and recharge delay the closer in proximity to Iron Bear they are.
  • Remove team effect and increase the shield recharge speed by 50%.

Problem: The Shield of Retribution skill tree has too many “Gun Damage” bonuses.
Propositions:

  • Change “Desperate Measure’s” bonus gun damage into “V1” damage that can be applied by any source instead of just weapons.

Problem: “Why Can’t I Carry All These Grenades” is largely redundant due to Moze’s grenade regeneration abilities.
Propositions:

  • Add a bonus to Moze’s grenade-throwing rate based on the numbers of grenades carried.
  • Add three grenades per point invested.
  • Enable grenades to be thrown while sprinting.
  • Add a chance to not consume grenades when thrown.
  • Add increased grenade damage.

Problem: “Explosive Punctuation” is not worth investing into due to better sources of Action Skill Cooldown existing.
Propositions:

  • Heavily increase the cooldown bonus. Increased to 8% per point on April 9th, 2020.
  • Change the skill to have a chance to reduce action skill cooldown by x seconds when splash damage is dealt.

Problem: “Short Fuse” is inconsistent.
Propositions:

  • Change secondary explosion chance to 75%~100% and reduce secondary explosion damage to 15% to enable consistency.

Other Skill Propositions:

  • Allow “Rushin’ Offensive” to enable throwing grenades while running.
  • Allow “Specialist Bear” to add a different bonus for having different types of Iron bear weapons equipped. Buffed on April 9th, 2020 from 25% to 60%.
  • Remove the diminishing returns on “Grizzled”, reduce the effect as necessary.

IRON BEAR

Problem: Auto Bear can be physically knocked around by small enemies.
Propositions:

  • Increase Auto Bear’s weight.

Problem: Iron Bear’s mid-air jump slows the mech down if the Speed Demon mayhem modifier is active.
Propositions: Adjust Iron Bear’s mid-air jump to function appropriately with the Speed Demon modifier.

Problem: Some of the capstones for Moze are non-applicable while piloting Iron Bear.
Propositions:

  • Enable Forge to passively regenerate ammo in Iron Bear’s armaments or reduce heat.
  • Enable Tenacious Defense to act as a one-time fail-safe that restores 40% of Iron Bear’s armor if it would be destroyed instead.
  • Enable Short Fuse to work with most Iron Bear weapons.

ANOINTMENTS

Problem: Iron Bear is cumbersome to use for anointment triggering.
Propositions:

  • Add a feature to summon an Auto Bear by holding the Action Skill button (similar to Attack Command) to enable easier anointment triggering and Auto Bear-focused builds.

Problem: The “After exiting Iron Bear, do not consume ammo for 5 seconds” is redundant with “Some for the Road”.
Propositions:

  • Replace with “After exiting Iron Bear, have a 50% chance to gain ammo instead of consuming ammo for 10 seconds”.
  • Allow Some for the Road and the anointment to stack together for 10 seconds of no-ammo consumption.

Problem: The “While Auto Bear is active, constantly regenerate 8% of magazine size per second” is lacking.
Propositions:

  • Change it to “While Auto Bear is active, weapons have a 25% chance to add ammo to the magazine.”

Problem: The “After exiting Iron Bear, the next 2 magazines will have 10% increased fire rate and 20% critical damage” anointment is lacking.
Propositions: (None)

  • Increase the strength of the bonuses to 20% fire rate and 30% critical damage.

Problem: “After exiting Iron Bear, the next 3 magazines will have 33% increased reload speed and 67% increased handling” anointment is lacking.
Propositions: (None)

Problem: Moze is punished for switching weapons while most anointments are active, and thus “trapped” into using one weapon until Iron Bear is able to be redeployed.
Propositions:

  • Add more anointments that activate on criteria not related to the end of an Action Skill, such as switching weapons, dealing splash damage, depleting/refilling a shield, or throwing a grenade.
  • Make Moze’s anointments persist across weapons with the same anointment.

Other Anointment Propositions:

  • Remove the kill requirement on the “30% Action Skill Cooldown after exiting Iron Bear” anointment.
  • Add Moze-specific versions of the elemental Action-Skill-End anointments that better mesh with her toolkit (whether it be longer durations or different activation conditions).

OTHER

Problem: Collecting a health pick-up stops shield regeneration (presumably when the Bloodletter class mod is equipped).
Propositions:

  • Adjust the Bloodletter to prevent this.

Problem: Moze’s ammo regeneration skills do not mention reduced regeneration effectiveness on Heavy Weapons.
Propositions:

  • Mention this in the skill descriptions or remove the reduced effectiveness.

Problem: Several of Moze’s Legendary Class Mods are un-intuitive or ineffective.
Propositions:

  • Remove the penalties on the Bloodletter. (They don’t display on the card anymore but are still in effect.)
  • Add a special effect of passive percentage-based health regeneration to the Bloodletter.
  • Replace the skills on the Rocketeer with “Vampyr”, “Stoke the Embers”, and “Auto Bear” to better suit a class mod designed to utilize Auto Bear.
  • Add +50% Action Skill Cooldown Rate to the Bear Trooper class mod.
  • Remove or buff the damage cap on the Bear Trooper’s unique effect.
  • Remove the clause where the user gains decreased fuel usage with each kill on the Raging Bear.
  • Add an effect where extra fuel is gained based on the damage dealt by Iron Bear.
  • Reduce the time required to hit the maximum corrosive damage on the Green Monster.
  • Enable the corrosive effect of the Green Monster to apply to Iron Bear weapons
  • Replace the bonus corrosive damage bonus of the Green Monster with one that convert’s Mozes’ incendiary skills to corrosive.
  • Increase the maximum damage cap of the Green Monster’s corrosive effect to 400% over the course of 20 seconds of continuous fire.
  • Add “Pull the Holy Pin” to the Mind Sweeper.

Problem: Inconsistent ability to trigger special effects while in Iron Bear (for example, the Electric Banjo relic’s tesla effect doesn’t work at all, while the Mind-Sweeper class mod’s mini-grenades do.)
Propositions:

  • Enable more effects to activate while in Iron Bear.

GLITCHES/BUGS

Problem: “Means of Destruction” does not properly regenerate grenade ammo if grenades are used. (Console issue)

Problem: The “Rocketeer” class mod does not work properly if the user is not the host.

Problem: Scorching RPMs and Phalanx Doctrine only boost the damage of Iron Bear’s left arm, just like Desperate Measures did before it was fixed.

Problem: Iron Bear doesn’t get the bonus damage from Drowning in Brass or Phalanx Doctrine if Moze accumulates stacks before summoning him. Iron Bear only gets the bonus damage from kills made while he is active.

Problem: “Means of Destruction” does not work correctly if a Loaded Dice is equipped.

Problem: “Means of Destruction” appears to have issues with ammo boxes.

Problem: “Rushin’ Offensive” no longer allows you to initiate a sprint while firing a weapon as of April 23rd, 2020.

Problem: “Force Feedback” does not actually restore any % of your shield on a critical kill.

Problem: If maximum fuel is boosted for Iron Cub it does not display a full tank of fuel when the action skill is initiated.

Problem: Iron Cub does not receive damage bonuses from Stoke the Embers or Desperate Measures. Phalanx Doctrine also only affects the left arm of Iron Cub.

RESOLVED

Problem: The “While Auto Bear is active, deal 20% bonus incendiary damage” anointment is lacking.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! The 20% damage bonus is now 75% as of January 16th 2020.

Problem: The “After exiting Iron Bear, the next 2 magazines will have 40% bonus incendiary damage” is redundant due to similar, superior anointments existing.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! The 40% damage bonus is now 125% as of January 16th 2020.

Problem: Bottomless Mags lacks any sort of survivability improvement for Moze.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! “Redistribution” now passively regenerates health while active and “Rushin’ Offensive” can health-steal as of April 23rd, 2020.

Problem: “Torgue Cross-Promotion” is oftentimes more detrimental to Moze than useful.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! “Torgue Cross-Promotion” now boosts splash damage alongside the original bonus as of April 23rd, 2020.

Problem: “Dakka Bear” underperforms.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! Iron Bear and the turret user now deal more damage together as of April 23rd, 2020.

Problem: Automatic ammo pick-ups from the ground interfere with ammo regeneration.
Propositions:

  • Semi-Resolved! “Forge” now fills up the player’s magazine even when your reserve ammunition is full as of April 23rd, 2020.

Problem: Relying on grenades for restoring health with “Vampyr” is inconsistent and gear reliant to be effective.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! “Redistribution”, “Rushin’ Offensive”, and “Biofuel” have increase Moze’s survivability.

Problem: Various Iron Bear weapons and augments underperform.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! Most weapons are now capable of endgame content after they were adjusted to scale with Mayhem Mode.

Problem: Iron Bear’s Action Skill Cooldown is excessive for the strength that it currently offers at endgame/doesn’t deal damge in Mayhem Mode.
Propositions:

  • Resolved!

Problem: Iron Bear lacks anointments for usage while piloting it.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! The Designer’s Cut update added anointments for this purpose.

Problem: Iron Bear can only use splash-dealing weapons to restore health with “Vampyr”, limiting weapon choice.
Propositions:

  • Resolved! (with DLC): The “Bear Mother” tree includes options for increasing Iron Bear’s survival rate.

Problem: The anointment for producing grenades while in Iron Bear does not activate in subsequent activations of Iron Bear.

27 Likes
If you dont like where Moze is at now
Does Fl4k actually need an OP mod?
Moze Class Mod Discussion
I think we have to face it
If you dont like where Moze is at now
Moze Community Resources Guide
#2

Tenacious Defense and Selfless Vengeance offer alternative play styles and are decent skills.

4 Likes
#3

Thanks for putting this together. I’ll add it to the Moze community resources in a bit.

Survivability

Alternatively making it a percent based regen for x seconds on either kill/critical kill. This in my mind synergizes better as you’d actually gain benefit from having a bigger shield.

Ideally I’d like TD to trigger as a ‘pseudo reserve shield’. Eg if my full shield of 100 is hit by an attack of 120 then the shield depletes, 40 hp is restored by TD and then the remaining 20 from the attack is subtracted leaving me with 20 shields.

This proposition seems like it further pigeonholes builds into Vampyr use. I think if other sustain is added then this is a non issue. Vampyr in it’s current issue is fine, it just needs support from elsewhere.

Maybe I’m hopeful but ideally if they just brought the outlier 1 hit attacks into line then the lack of health gate isn’t a problem. No health gate should be a trade off decision we make when reserving so much health. The current issue currently though is that certain enemy attacks deal damage in the 50k+ range which means the trade off isn’t fair for certain fights.

Skills

I disagree with the problem here, Click Click has synergy with BM it just isn’t worth utilizing with how low the damage it offers is. If the damage of the skill was worth something it could encourage a play style where you play a game of cat and mouse at the bottom of your mag, and in return your damage is boosted spectacularly. If it offers proper damage the whole of Bottomless mags would be the toolkit you’d use to pull massive damage out of this skill. In much the same way that Shield of Retribution gives you all the tools to protect your minuscule health in return for massive damage from Desperate Measures.

I’d copy Amara’s arms deal here. Which gives splash damage reduction and boosts your splash damage. They’ve shown they aren’t afraid to copy skills from Amara considering Stoke the embers is just a worse Tempest.

I’d propose we don’t remove any IB healing but instead just add more. Something at the bottom of BM or SoR that isn’t splash based. Having non splash based healing in DW would be strange as all the DW augments are splash.

Annointments

Alternatively allow them to stack leading to 10 seconds with 0 ammo consumption.

Bigger numbers is all this needs. Double the fire rate bonus and make the critical damage 30%. That’s a massive boost to Moze as the only other option for increasing these attributes Moze has is to use Scorching RPM’s.

4 Likes
#4

Sorry this is going to be a fairly long reply but offer some alternative solutions as well as a few missed ones.

Change it to restores based on max health instead of missing health. Maybe add splash healing somewhere else.

Remove attacks from hitting beyond shield and into health in one shot? For all vault hunters. Make shield break stop excess damage. Or build that into TRL or TD or SOMETHING.

They could honestly just remove the team shield healing. While they’re at it just make the recharge speed like 50 percent faster, it would hardly make a difference. Also can we please get Moze’s health and shields visible while in Iron Bear?

First this is also a fix for every ammo regen skill. Make it regen into our reserve and then pull over to magazine. No more auto pick up woes wrecking out ammo regen.

Now with click click, either make it work like green monster (only make it ramp up way quicker like 5 seconds), or make it the more ammo in the mag the more damage. It’s a second to last skill, why can’t it be better? Make it comparable to Desperate measures.

Add +3 grenades per point, and allow grenades to be thrown while sprinting. The latter could be added to Rushin’ Offensive but it suits this more in my opinion.

Short Fuse isn’t inconsistent in my opinion. But, i like your idea of ‘more procs with less damage’ better so I can turn any gun into splash consistently.

I hate this skill, it’s the worst skill in the game in its current state. Change it to always increase 10% radius and 5% damage per point. 100 percent of the time, not this RNG junk it currently is. Even change it to half my proposal and I’d still take it. Currently it potentially ruins 2 different legendary coms.

You propose moving this to deadlines and removing splash. I propose leaving the splash one with Vampyr (or move it to deadlines) but put the other iron bear sustain without splash somewhere else. Maybe add it to Specialist Bear?

I don’t really prefer the idea you have for this about gaining ammo. But I don’t know. I’d suggest at the bare minimum let this anointment roll on heavy weapons. 2nd, I would propose it stacking with some for the road or something.

Triple… Maybe even quadruple this? Why is it so bad?

Honestly, so pointless just combine it with the crit one I just mentioned. These anointments are that bad.

Now what else I would add.

Fix MoD on ps4 (possibly on Xbox) so it regens grenades with other grenades like on pc.

If Rocketeer still doesn’t work as non-host in co-op, that should be fixed and figure out why it’s happening because it seems like multiple skills and gear bonuses are affected by this bug.

Remove dakka bear, make it built in. Very very very least make it give you an explosive mini gun that does some actual damage with usable accuracy, and allow grenade throws.

Fix the grenade anointment while in Iron Bear so they actually drop when taking damage.

Add an shield anointment that adds 120% splash damage (or similar) for 25s on ENTERING Iron Bear.

Finally, for selfless vengeance I didn’t feel like this replaces your idea or anything and I just thought of it now. Add dealing Fire Damage heals Moze for something like 2% fire damage dealt. It would make it synergize with the skill itself, and with bottomless/demolition builds.

I have lots of other suggestions but I don’t want to hijack, and these are in my opinion what is almost required to make Moze less frustrating to play these days.

Edit: forgot to mention vladof ingenuity needs to also increase recharge rate. Ideally TRL would too. And BtIC increases are waaay too small.

2 Likes
#5

Haha it appears we share a very similar mindset, read through yours right after I hit post on mine.

1 Like
#6

Added recent suggestions and problems to the list.

1 Like
#7

You work fast my friend. Good job.

#8

Propositions: “While Auto Bear is active, Moze has the 25% per shot to add 1 ammo to her magazine”

Propositions: Add and option to toggle ON/OFF automatic ammo pick-up.

#9

I thought about this. They’d have to program co-op pick ups not to go into your mag either, and leave grenades to pick up automatically.

Whatwvers easier between changing how ammo regen works or adding the option would work for me. It seems like a silly oversight they didn’t consider or didn’t feel like would be a big issue.

#10

co-op pick up? like when you’re playing co-op and they pick up ammo it counts as you picking ammo too? like eridium and money?

yes same here, its gets a little frustrating sometimes. Probably and oversight, not enough testing was done or it never cross their minds how it would interfere with Moze BM or ammo regen in general.

#11

This is literally the last thing you want.

Simplest solution: don’t let us pick up ammo beyond our Mag at Full Plus What’s In our backpack. Or. To clarify…

If we have 30 total Rockets we’re allowed. And a mag size of 10. Don’t let us have 21 Rockets in our pack after we’ve spent one. Or at least, make that the case the moment you take an ammo Regen skill

1 Like
#13

This and the first ASE related thing: as much as it would suck to dilute the loot pool. Maybe a set of anointments for Elemental Damage labeled On Action Skill Start? Imagine having to choose between whether you wanna run two ASS or two ASE or one of each.

Also. I totally should have went with begin instead of start. Whoopsie

2 Likes
#14

I posted some ideas for Moze healing in a different topic a while back I’ll go ahead and quote them here.

We also had further discussion about it in that topic if you want to follow the link.

1 Like
#15

Come to think of it, I could be wrong but I think it picks it up for everyone. Sorry I’d have to go check again or maybe someone else could chime in.

Why? It wouldn’t have any downside at all… I think you may misunderstand something here?

An example to explain what this means. You have a total ammo capacity of 100. 25 mag, 75 reserve. You fire 10 bullets, so you have 15 and it will pull 10 from your reserve into your mag while simultaneously regening 10 directly into the reserve. Meaning you will regen ammo into your mag back up to 25 by pulling it from reserve, at the same time (for each bullet pulled from reserve) you regen a bullet into reserve. If you pick up ammo while you’re short 10 in your mag, it will go into reserve and you will still regen ammo from reserve back into your mag.

#16

This would be amazing.

Also, Splash and a higher fire damage one as Gunner only because synergy.

Both are amazing options. Maybe apply to Security Bear too so we can chose between it and Vampyr for IB survivability?
Also, Security Bear shield bar maybe?

2 Likes
#17

Forgot about security bear. Needs to be charged on entry, and needs to recharge with auto bear.

1 Like
#18

Maybe Force Feedback could include “shield gate”, in other words it would add in a health gating like ability to your shield instead. Requiring 50%+ shield at the time of damage to work. This could prevent instant death on shield break with 1 Hp builds.

This would also make things like Tenacious Defense, Re-Charger shield, and Stop-gap shield viable with a deathless artifact or other 1 Hp build.

1 Like
#19

Gotcha. I thought you wanted it to go backpack then over fill from there on in

1 Like
#20

I reread your comment a few times to make sure I didn’t mess up my wording which would cause OP to mess up his.

Yeah definitely not just fill reserves, it’s more of a programming solution for gearbox, ideally players wouldn’t notice it other than it fixing ammo pickups being annoying.

#21

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but I’d like to see Rushin’ Offensive give you the ability to chuck nades while sprinting

2 Likes