About Stainless Steel Bear skill (after Dec 12 Patch)

jhp525 · December 13, 2019, 10:37am

I’m not really good at English. Sorry that if you see many awkwardness.
I use web translator and window calculator. (Also I’m not good at math)

Stainless Steel Bear was added description that IB gains increased Damage after November 21 Patch.

You already know that description doesn’t work at all. Recently I thought too.

Actually This increasing IB’s Damage works at only ‘Dakka Bear’ skill’s mounted machine gun. By the way, ‘Scorching RPM’s’ skill also effects on Dakka Bear too. Increasing Damage and Increasing Critical Damage. (Other increasing IB’s damage skills are not effect on Dakka Bear)

Using this skills separately, calculation had no problem. But using this skills both at a same time, it seems there is some formula problem.

And now after Dec 12 Patch, According from patch note, Stainless Steel Bear’s Increasing Damage effects on IB’s arms. I test it with basic Minigun

Minigun, no skill = 1006

There is 2013 dmg on the screenshot. This is sum from left minigun damage and right minigun damage. So… actually can think minigun dmg is 1006.3 ~ 1006.4 and rounding off.
(Spoilers, 1006.35 is good at with fine calculation)

Minigun, Stainless Steel Bear 5 points (+20%) = 1208

Minigun, Scorching RPM’s 5 points (+25%) = 1258

Minigun, Scorching RPM’s 5 points + Stainless Steel Bear 5 points (+25%, +20%) = 1459…?
It should be 1509 or 1510, (1006.35+25%)+20%=1509.525
This was same problem that I told up there.

Other skills are fine with SSB.

Minigun, Specialist Bear (+25%) = 1258

Minigun, Specialist Bear + SSB 5 points (+25%, +20%) = 1510

Minigun, Drowning in Brass 5 points 3 stacks (+60%, only left arm) = 1610

Minigun, DIB 5 points 3 stacks + SSB 5 points (+60%, +20%, left arm) = 1932
*SSB works at both side arms well.

Minigun, Desperate Measures 3 points (+50%, only left arm) = 1510

Minigun, Desperate Measures 3 points + SSB 5 points (+50%, +20%, left arm) = 1811

Minigun, Phalanx Doctrine 5 points 1 stack (+10%, only left arm) = 1107

Minigun, Phalanx Doctrine 5 points 1 stack + SSB 5 points (+10%, +20%, left arm) = 1328

Currently I tested and checked basic minigun only. But, I think this can show you that summarizing the situation. Thank you for watching.

DoctorDragon · December 13, 2019, 12:04pm

This is a classic example of the difference between skills that do additive damage and multiplicative damage. And it seems like Scorching RPMs is the one that deals additive damage.

Your calculation above would be correct if these skills all dealt multiplicative damage. But because it appears that Scorching RPMs is the odd one out due to being additive, the real maths that are going on in the background are: 1006.35 x (25% + 20%) = 1459.2075

Felixthecoach · December 13, 2019, 1:40pm

That’s a good point. The OP did a lot of work to capture the data, and that’s some badass stuff right there! I’m glad you pointed that out tho. It helps give context to the data numbers and how to possibly maximize the dps output from IB. I wonder if those same numbers apply to Auto Bear or if the calculations change when he’s no longer a vehicle?

Thank you for looking at these! I believe that @DoctorDragon may be right about how the math works. Maybe someone like @Prismatic or someone who does similar work could help create a dmg formula for IB with the new updates.

Prismatic · December 13, 2019, 2:36pm

I’m not overly familiar with Iron Bear’s damage formula. However glancing at @Duk’s work over at

It appears they’ve rejigged a few of the number placements. Looking at the above I’d say it’s probably:

Iron Bear Damage = (Base Damage * ( Stainless Steel Bear + Specialist Bear + Scorching RPMs ) * (Dib + Phalanx + Desperate Measures) * (Splash) * Critical Hit (2 * 1+( Scorching RPM’s)) * Elemental Multipliers (+Stoke the Embers)

Mahtyo · December 13, 2019, 3:48pm

Holup, drowing in brass increase IB damage now?!

twoPIZZA · December 13, 2019, 8:01pm

It may have always, you get stacks while in IB.

Not 100% sure though.

Duk · December 13, 2019, 8:38pm

Thank you for this. I didn’t get a chance to play Thursday.

roboteconomist · December 13, 2019, 10:38pm

Anyone test to see if Armored Infantry applies to IB? I’be been toying with the idea of a railgun/fire crit build.

jhp525 · December 14, 2019, 4:53pm

@DoctorDragon
Thank you for explaining! I heard about additive and multiplicative. But honestly I couldn’t understand it properly and still can’t understand lol. My bad.
However, I understand that I mis thought about formula and defined it as problem.
I’m little embarrassed but also feel grown

@Felixthecoach
Yup! I agree with you and @DoctorDragon about math works. I was too prematurely define it as some problem. Thanks.

@Prismatic
Thank you for showing the IB damage formula and making it comfortable!

@Mahtyo
Before patches. Yes DIB increases IB damage with stacks, And effects on only left arm.

@twoPIZZA
You’re right.

@Duk
Thank you for thanking me! and for your formula! It will helps many moze players! certainly!

@roboteconomist
As far as i know, Armored Infantry doesn’t work on IB

jhp525 · December 14, 2019, 5:26pm

I found weird difference after patch.

This screenshot was took at right after activating IB with SSB 5 points.
Starts at about 80% of fuel. I test it by checking IB duration with non-firing.
As a result, SSB’s IB duration buff works fine. It seems just UI graphic glitch.
(normal: about 01:30, SSB 5 points: about 01:48)

Prismatic · December 14, 2019, 5:32pm

Welcome, anytime.

If you add or remove points in SSB does it change the ui bug to be more or less extreme? Or does it always show as 80%?

I see this a lot so I’m trying to put together a piece introducing a lot of BL math. The following is pulled from my current draft and is my attempt to explain these terms.

When discussing damage boosts terms such as additive and multiplicative are thrown around loosely. Forum folk and mathematicians have been using the terms for years so the assumption is that everyone knows what they mean, you know what they mean right?

When 2 terms are said to be additive it means the bonuses are added together. So if my first bonus is Purple, my second bonus is Blue and they are said to be additive then when we do the calculation it will appear as so:

Total = Purple + Blue

Now lets add a third variable Red and we’ll say this is multiplicative to our friends Purple and Blue. The calculation thus becomes:

Total = (Purple + Blue) x Red

Simple enough right? Well lets up it another notch. A 4th variable yellow is introduced and this is additive to Red.
Well hold on Prismatic, isn’t Red multiplicative?
Glad you caught that, yes Red is multiplicative to Purple and Blue, however that doesn’t stop it being additive to yellow. Additive and Multiplicative are relative terms, they only make sense when comparing terms or groupings of terms. When I say yellow is Additive to Red I make no mention of its relation to Purple and Blue. However as we know how Red interacts with Purple and Blue we can interpret how yellow fits into our overall formula.

Total = (Purple + Blue) x (Red + yellow)

jhp525 · December 14, 2019, 7:23pm

Good point and your expectation was correct.
It’s starts at full fuel UI graphic when don’t use SSB.

SSB 1 point

SSB 2 points

SSB 3 points

SSB 4 points

Thank you so much for explaining kindly. I researched IB skills as just ‘working or not working’. I was so ignorant about combining skills! and how it working!

Felixthecoach · December 14, 2019, 7:23pm

I noticed this and think it may not be a bug but might be their way of allowing you to get a kill at the start of a fight without wasting the fuel return from Deadlines

Felixthecoach · December 14, 2019, 7:27pm

Lol. But knowing how these patches have gone, it’s a bug

jhp525 · December 15, 2019, 2:22pm

Oh wait I almost forgot. Drowning in Brass, Desperate Measures and Phalanx Doctrine.
They are left arm buff skills (Only increases left arm damage). But dose not effect on Bear Fist, all augments of Bear Fist and Hammerdown Protocol (Vanquisher Rocket Pod augment).

p.s I checked these before Dec 12 patch. It could be changed

jhp525 · December 16, 2019, 7:33pm

Additional, SSB does not increase IB’s all elemental DOT (Damage-Over-Time) just like ‘Scorching RPM’s’ skill. I tested it with Salamander (flamethrower)