12/12/19 Moze Class Updates(stary eyed)!

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

These changes went into effect in a past life!

Moze is now balanced with more of a focus on sustain(without being pidgeon-holed 15-20 points deep into Demolition Woman(for Vampyr) and also without being reliant upon Transformer/shoot foot gimmicks)!

*All changes are “in addition to” unless otherwise noted and all are thematically and mechanically structured to make the gunner fun and exciting to play.

Enjoy!

*Shield of Retribution:

-Security Bear(1/1) Additionaly Iron Bear now gains an aura that grants +0.5% Health Regen per second and +15% Shield Recharge Delay. *This skill functions with Auto Bear.

-Force Feedback(1/1) When Moze scores a Critical Kill she now instead gains +33% Shield Recharge and +21% Shield Recharge Delay for 5 seconds. Additionally, when Moze scores a Critical Kill, 25% of her bonus Fire Damage becomes additional Shock Damage for 5 seconds.

*Bottomless Mags:

-Redistribution(1/1) On critical hit Moze additionaly now has a 10% chance to regen 3.0% of her Maximum Health over 3 seconds. *Does not function while in Iron Bear. *Does not stack.

-Rushin’ Offensive(1/1) Zane now also gains the ability to shoot while sprinting.

-Click, Click…(3/3) Moze now gains gun damage per point, equal to twice the number of rounds her current weapon fires per second.

-Forged(1/1) Forge now additionally provides 5% Missing Health per second.

*Demolition Woman:

-Stainless Steel Bear(5/5/) Now additionaly grants Moze 1% Damage Reduction per point. Max 5% Damage Reduction at 5/5

-Auto Bear (1/1) Auto Bear can now optionally be deployed to targeted location by briefly holding AS button down while aiming.

-Unbearable Rage(1/1) Tier 5 New Skill) Requires Autobear as prerequisite: Iron Bear can now be deployed via airdrop at targeted location within medium range by briefly holding the AS button down. Iron Bear plummets to the ground like a missile in a spectacular Nuclear Storm that does crappy Rad, Fire and some tickling Shock damage but looks really cool. After the Autobear timer is up, Iron Bear goes on a +60 second cooldown.

3 Likes
Theory: Immortal AFK Moze - Mayhem 2.0 update
Idea: Change Moze's perk
#2

Moze is no longer required to spec into Demolition Woman for sustain as her other trees now provide alternative means of healing and shield control all the while, without being too powerful when included with Vampyr. This makes Moze less one dimensional as a character and provides more diversity in her build selection without relying on gear gimmicks.

The changes in her Bottomless Mag tree should represent her affinity for taking advantage of firing fast, high magazine capacity weapons for extended periods of time while providing intuitive gameplay.

The changes in Shield of Retribution are there to give Moze slightly more shield tanking ability along with some minor health sustain. The change to Force Feedback will allow it to function seperate of the Guardian Rank ability, “Topped Off”, while providing some flavor and shield damaging abilities via the slight additional shock damage.

Unbeatable was just added because it’s fooking badass!

3 Likes
#3

@gokpok

We were discussing this in another thread.

1 Like
#4

i like these suggestions. maybe they’ll do SOME of them. Moze definitely needs more survivability outside of demo woman. There is literally zero way to spec without vampyr in mayhem 4 and not be constantly downed.

3 Likes
#5

These are some cool ideas. Nice work!

  • Does Zane need to be within a minimal range to gain the benefit?
  • The initial part of Force Feedback could be stronger. The second part is interesting.
  • So Click, Click… scales with fire rate? That +32% Atlas fire rate state starting to look pretty good. Personally, I think it should still scale with magazine size. Just not, how it currently is.
  • Unbearable Rage reminds me of Axton’s Nuke. That could be fun.

Something that hasn’t been mentioned about the SoR tree. There’s Thin Red Line builds and non-TRL builds. TRL builds generate large shields, but there’s really nothing in the SoR tree to support/sustain that. They also don’t benefit from Tenacious Defense. On the flip side, non-TRL builds can benefit from TD, but Behind the Iron Curtain and Force Feedback are underwhelming. So, it’s kind of mess.

Aside of what you’ve suggested, one of my top request is that Torgue Cross Promotion also gives splash damage reduction. At the moment, I find the skill to be a double-edged sword. I still like using it though.

Again, good job!

#6

Yeah that’s a sad state of affairs and thus my dilemma since first seeing the characters teased months ago:

I love melee and explosions, in that order but wasn’t really happy with Amara’s simple melee animations(having been completely spoiled by Krieg) so my next choice for a Main was Moze.

The very first time I studied her skill trees, I noticed that her combat sustain was entirely based around the gameplay loop of toss grenade for Vampyr heals>MoD & Pull the Pin for grenade/ammo recoup>do it again.

Not a bad design in and of itself, however, it’s lacking in one *major" way: there is nothing else to supplement it and it essentially requires you to go balls deep in the Demo Woman tree. It didn’t look like healthy design then and it isn’t healthy or enjoyable design now.

Tradionally, characters sustain skills are at the beginning of the tree or in Vampyr’s case are scaled to be more powerful when they are lower in the tree.

Flak, Zane and Amara all have great options for sustain in their trees that allows options when deciding where to spend skill points.

Amara has Clarity and Samsara that are easily accessible at the begining tiers of of her green tree and a super power life steal ability rather deep in her blue tree. She also has damage reduction with Helping Hands and shield control with Mindfullness.

Zane is loaded with health regen and shield manipulation and is well designed in this regard with multiple options at various tiers in all three of his trees.

FL3K also enjoys a variety of stackable health regen skills that allow them and their pets staying power.

Moze is just so one dimensional in design with her grenades almost acting like a Grog Nozzle in some regards.

I’m not denying that Vampyr is a powerful skill, I’m just arguing that it’s location so deep in the blue tree, coupled with it being the singular health regen she has access to ends up being a VERY limiting aspect when deciding how to play her.

When looking at how to build Moze your choice is already made. You either run Vampyr, run Vampyr with Bloodletter or run Transformer shield and throw shock at your feet.

No bueno. Please attend @Gearbox.

#7

Yeah, Click needs something done. I wasn’t really sure how to do this while being conscious of CoV weapons.

Yeah, I originally was looking at Willing and Pressure from Axtons skillset but I noticed that the values for shield regen/delay are overall higher in BL2 for some reason (Willing 5/5 is something like +70/-55%)! So, I tried to look at Mindfulness and Zanes Blue and Green trees to deduce a more relatable baseline but it still feels super low all around.

That’s what I had in mind!

I originally had a suggestion for Behind the Iron Curtain to be increased to +45% Shield Recharge and -33% Delay at 3/3 and was hoping this combined with Security Bear and Force Feedback crits could keep Shield builds rolling well enough but then I remembered the additional nerf to Bloodletter (with +150/-100 Shield Recharge) and I kinda have up. Although if that nerf was reverted I think it might’n could work.

Would have to do something with Tenacious D though to make it fit with Bloodletter (and the majority of the tree). It is a capstone and is kinda caca atm.

Hey that’s a great idea! What, about 4% per point eh? That’s in line with Amara’s Tier 2 skill but a little lower since it provides an additional effect. Could go 5% per even.

I dunno, I doubt anything will be done but I’d love to see some more thoughtful design behind skill choices.

#8

How would it scale with CoV weapons though? I like this idea and would like to work on it.

Definitely.

#9

Um, I guess CoV would always have the bonus? Maybe it might not work out.

I do have another idea for the current version of Click, Click… and that is to change Forge’s ammo regeneration to scale with how much ammo is in the magazine. The less ammo in the magazine, the higher the regeneration. This seems like an easier solution, but I’m not sure how ammo regeneration would affect with CoV weapons.

I was thinking 7-8%, since chance to increase splash damage radius is not as good as plain splash damage, which is more consistent. Amara’s also gives her some damage. Actually, I just checked. Arms Deal gives 12% splash damage reduction per point. Even if TCP has the same amount of splash damage reduction, Arms Deal would still be marginally better.

#10

Damn that is high. I didn’t realize it was that Hugh lol. And I don’t just mean high by Amara standards either :rofl:!

Yeah could prolly go 10%(being fair) but then apply the not-Amara tax and end up at around 7%. Sounds about right.

#11

@ckx00000 @gokpok

Arm’s deal has the same diminishing returns that Helping Hands and One with Nature has. At 5/5 it caps at 40% splash damage reduction.

2 Likes
#12

TIL. Thanks.

#13

Shoot at 2/5 it’s 21%, over half way. Some harsh DRs.

Btw, In liked the idea that you was floating about switching Vampyr and MoD. I rly like that idea as it makes Vampyr more accessible and almost borrowed this but I thought better bc with some additional healing it might not be good to have something as powerful as Vamp so low as tier 2.

But as a more realistic change, @sammantixbb idea would be very good.

#14

@sammantixbb was a major contributor to the idea.

Give credit were credit is due.

#15

Sure, wasn’t being exclusionary, I was just shouting the names I personally remember offhand, as I wasn’t directly involved.

Edit: Oops got thread replies crossed lol.

Yeah.

#16

Wait. What’s going on here? Lol.

1 Like
#17

Lol, I was telling @13bigTyme that I liked their idea I saw a while back about switching Vamp and MoD tier locations and they told me not to forget to credit you. Which tbh, I was lucky to recall anything at all w my foggy brain, much less names. :grin:

1 Like
#18

I wasn’t calling you out on it. I just like to give people proper credit.

1 Like
#19

Wait, is this actually happening?

#20

Nothing wrong with giving credit, especially Nona good idea like that.