The issues with Zane are more than just his skills, it's how the game was designed

Take Anointments, for example. Even if you just ignore stuff like Amara’s crazy bonuses, other characters have ways of significantly enhancing their anointment bonuses.

Moze, for instance. The Anoint that gives +50% elemental for the next two clips, might as well be a permanent bonus for a bottomless mags moze. Anointments that proc on skill end can be spammed indefinitely by a Rakk Attack Fl4k.

By contrast, Zane can either choose to have 50% bonus elemental damage when SNTNL is active, or he can choose to only get his anointments after his action skills have ended - but when that happens, he also loses a significant portion of his damage, since much of it is tied to having his action skills active!

And the Anointments Zane CAN effectively use - sliding and airborne bonuses - are typically less than the other alternatives, even though they’re realistically less consistent and more difficult to use.

The other Vault Hunters are simply better equipped to exploit the bonuses offered by most Anointments.


Then consider weapons. Take Maliwan Weapons, for example.

Maliwan Guns have a charge-up time. That’s pretty much insignificant on Moze; she can run while charging up and while shooting, and because she can shoot virtually forever, she never has to charge up twice. Amara has a skill that can shorten the charge-up time to almost nothing. And Fl4k deals the most damage while stationary, so having to pause to charge up doesn’t particularly hurt him.

But Zane needs to be moving! He gets the largest part of his damage while in the air or sliding, which offers a very limited time window. By the time he finishes charging a weapon up to fire, he will have lost the vast majority of his potential damage.

This also applies to a great number of other weapons. All guns with a windup time, for instance; Zane can’t really use them effectively, because it slows him to a walk and costs him a HUGE amount of damage! And how about the guns that offer increased damage the longer you hold the trigger? Moze can get 250% damage from them, Zane will at best compensate for his lack of high speed movement, and likely lose damage overall.

This is why you end up seeing a lot of Zane players essentially forced into using a Maggie; it’s one of a very few weapons that has decent DPS output without needing to waste critical time to activate it.

And that’s not even optimal for him! Playing Dirty functions very poorly with the Maggie, giving only about 16% of its maximum bonus at best! Only the Lyuda really offers everything he could need, but of course, he doesn’t have the ammo supply to sustain it.

Realistically, the weapons that would work best for him are sniper rifles like that, but unfortunately, most snipers do far less damage than equivalent pistols and SMGs.


Another problem is with enemy AI. Many of them have perfect aim, most notably those guys with rocket launchers or sawblade guns. Moving fast and dodging around is only an effective strategy if it actually reduces the chances of enemies hitting you. But against enemies with perfect aim? Moving fast just makes it harder for the PLAYER to hit enemies. If it weren’t for the recent boost to Violent Momentum, running fast would be virtually unusable. Even as it is, it’s taking a great risk for a marginal benefit. Other characters can sit back in cover and protect themselves, but Zane is FORCED to sprint into combat, putting himself at risk for greater performance.


So really, much of the problem isn’t just Zane’s skills. Which isn’t to say they couldn’t use some help, but even if they did get help, he’d still be hamstringed by a game that seems determined to deny him options.

in m4 settings kill skill zane does not have enough dps to saty in his performance zone, if you are playing gimmickless the best take is 130% on swap double barrel with CCC, means more up time on clone more swaps more time on 130% but clone barely does damage even with his best options like crossroads scourge or torgue blisters skeksil etc. other way still revolves around CCC since we only benefit from action skill up time but this time you take half hitman VM+Salvation+cool hand+DFC and then you take syncro donny and whatever you fee like for last point. if you go with blowing dopplebanger and then running barrier SNTNL which is super nerdy (basically juggling all 3 AS due to menu stop time mechanic in solo), you can somewhat keep seein’red engine going but i personally feel like even with great gear i am forced into CCC which is my least fav play style. IF u go CCC+seein’red you miss your biggest damage which is double synchro+donny so you are purely reliant on VM which is another thing i despise.

Yeah, imagine a level cap increase to 60, every Zane build will be Seen red+CCC and donnybrook+syncronicity. Thats it. Bye Bye build diversity. In my opinion, Zane has some of the skills wrongly allocated, some have bad design, and most of them are conditional.
I Wonder why Zane don’t have a critical damage increase skill, as a hitman/killer, but Amara as a melee brawler does, or Moze, as a splash damage/mech caracter. I think i would agreez if GB would decide to TRY, atleast for a period of time, a Zane redesign. If not working, to come back to this anytime.

Skills, classmods could be reworked.

And as a side thing… Distributed Denial looks more like an augment. Is not much as a capstone in my eyes.
Just a casual player here. But i do care too, after ~300h of Zane.

I think he just needs proper buffs.

His kill skills are seriously lacking and are outperformed by many other VH’s passive.

Go ahead and compare 2 fang vs playing dirty, or Scorching RPMs and From Rest to Violent Violence.

Its a huge deal. Kill skills are a huge condition and should be rewarded with big bonuses.

Zane currently has to invest in a mid tier capstone to make them even half way decent.

Then he needs his final capstone to activate them.

Other VH’s just get it passively, and then get their capstone to be some other huge bonus.

If you dont invest in his kill skills you wont be doing any damage and are stuck with builds like CCC which is slow, tedious and prone to blow up in your face if you dont get that crucial freeze.

I dont believe Gearbox is interested in fixing him though. The latest “buffs” were very very very cautious, meanwhile he was just barely competent for M3 - M4? Forget it.

I just saw a video with m4 MT in 7 min with Amara. If people say Amara is the balanced caracter, then will need double or triple buffs.

Hes actually pretty good right now.
The recent buff with the stacking skills made him really strong under the right conditions.

Kill skills being the way they are is definitely a design problem - same for Fl4k.
At least Zane can trigger them himself at all. Its basically mandatory for optimal play but hey, at least he has options to pull it off.

he can not pull it off in many m4 COV areas where there is not enough trash spawns to kill.

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I want to piggy back off this. The difference between the COV trials/Slaughters and all the other enemy type trials/slaughters is astronomical in terms of difficulty for Zane .

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I would like to point you to this list right here. This is a list of some of things that would make Zane much better

this is a bad argument considering seein red + ccc is a poor combo

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I have seen one good anointment for Zane that gives a 30% crit buff when inside his barrier but I’ve been wondering if anyone is using CCC and doppelbanger to get the most out of the new anointments.

Wow, is that a new one? I would love that annointment.

it is vanilla augment and it is worse than dmg augments in most cases

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