There's gotta be something close to the DPS of Tediore Chucking Moze without me having to be Tediore Chucking Moze

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

No disrespect to the wonderful mind(s?) that first perpetuated that build, it’s just not for me.

I want to solo the Takedown on M4. Can it be done without the Tediore build?

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#2

Tediore chucking has been around since BL2. Now we just have a cutpurse and facepuncher to help with ammo consumption. Nothing will really ever beat it, except rocket launcher spam. It’s just the nature of the game. As for being able to finish hard content there are many options. Though, many are limited in sustain and survivability. We might get some changes later this week, but we will likely get big changes when the new 1st season pass DLC drops.

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#3

its not difficult to do something other than teddy chuck moze for m4. m4 is more of a gear quality check than anything. it punishes poor part matchups and bad anointment alignment, but other than the takedown and slaughter shafts, there isn’t really anything a decent deathless or blast master build can’t do. the nice part is they’re interchangable, really. doing content you don’t need the survivability? put on a victory rush or otto idol and a blast master. start dying? swap back to deathless/bloodletter.

what makes the takedown so insane compared to the rest of the content is that the elite versions of mobs found within the takedown have extremely exaggerated health, so the 850% from m4 is even worse. thats why teddy chucking is so effective because you need that high burst damage.

#4

How are the interchangeable? A good Blast Master build goes down the Bottomless Mags tree and Demo Women. A good 1HP build goes down Shield of Retribution and either Demo Woman or Bottomless Mags depending on how you want to play and sustain yourself.

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#5

you really don’t need a ton out of SOR to take enough advantage of a deathless/bloodletter.

#6

You need enough to get to Desperate Measures. Anything less and it’s just a damage loss at that point.

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#7

You won’t be able to beat Tediore chucks. Burning ammo at the fastest rate possible should be a reliable path to high DPS.

In BL2 chucking builds were limited by ammo pools and the lack of bullet regen comparable to the ammo utilization. Chuck builds needed careful management to kill raid bosses before running out of ammo. BL3 gives us the Cutpurse and (redundant) facepuncher that gives all our shotgun ammo back for 1 shot! That allows you to sustain chuck DPS indefinitely.

The only way to address the builds strength is to attack one of the 3 legs it stands on:

Tediore chuck damage - chuck damage is (relatively) balanced without regen so no
Cutpurse - Effect is underwhelming without Facepuncher so leave it alone or scrap it
Facepuncher - The only option I see is to reduce projectile count sharply or stop multi-projectile hits from procing on hit effects.

If we kill multi-projectile hits, the collateral damage is high:

White Elephant
LNT
Brain Freeze (don’t nerf Zane please)
Head Count?
Ferious Attack
Vanpyr?

Given their appreciation of discovered interactions, I think you can count on the balance team to take the nerf hammer to one side of the Tediore build triangle. Then again this is the same “balance team” that allowed the Diver to go live without comparable treasures for the other vault hunters.

#8

High damage elemental guns also work exceptionally well with the mindsweeper com provided you can get the crits to proc the grenades, the build i run is also interchangable between blastmaster and bloodletter losing a measly 33% going with bloodletter (which is made up for within 3 kills thanks to pd

#9

They can nerf BOTH cutpurse and face puncher to the ground, just switch to pistol in that case

#10

Oh man, don’t get me wrong. I don’t want the chuckin’ to be nerfed, I think it’s a great build. I just really, really, really don’t want to play it. If other builds were buffed to the same strength I’d be cool with it.

Maybe I’ll snag a mindsweeper.

#11

I have nothing against it either, hell even i chuck some things when i have to (bangarangs and jackhammers) but its something i dont want to rely on;
But to be completely honest; i dont see why moze’ chuckbuild isnt based around the mindsweeper to begin with as it would almost double the dps in some cases

#12

that has more to do with relying on bloodletter for survivability purposes, whether its a stop gap or deathless setup. its just too easy to go down without a reliable means of getting back up otherwise.

#13

Homing/MIRV Tediores are just gun-shaped grenades IMHO. Every character can take advantage of them in one way or another. It’s just another option. I like it.

#14

They don’t need to change a lot. just make facepuncher do the same damage with 1 pellet. doesn’t affect anything but cutpurse and shooting star.

#15

It would effect the white elephant artifact aswell. Since the FP is more heavily based on melee damage, having that 1 pelet would be exponentially cutting its dps

#16

The problem with Moze is how little survival her skills provide. Yes, we can have 46k shields, but they go down very quickly and we don’t have a stable way to recover them. Teddy chuck provides not only huge damage, but also an effective way to replenish shields.
The problem with effective DPS lies behind how thin Mose is. We don’t have good speed like Amara and Zane do. We don’t have good utilities like the ability to distract the enemy with pets. (enemies really ignore Autobear). In the end, we do not have a good action skill, because, 100k hp IB flies in seconds.
Okay, we can build a rapid-fire weapon. But for this we will need direct visibility with the enemy. That means we’ll take damage. That means we’ll have to hide when we get too much. This means that our DPS is greatly reduced if someone does not distract the enemy. Teddy chuck has no such problem.
The problem isn’t that teddy chuck is strong. The problem is how weak the other set are.

For example, I am very saddened by how little the shield of retribution does for shields. You just can’t use anything else but a transformer. And I don’t understand why there’s nothing to use Hyperion’s weapons. I would give anything for the opportunity to expand the shields for weapons and the opportunity to see them on healthbar.

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#17

Could you explain that last part?

#18

This is my crazy fantasy. All Hyperion brand weapons have a front shield when you aim. This shield has a volume of energy like a normal shield. (However, 4K shields are destroyed very quickly, as you can’t move fast when aiming). These shields also have unique properties like absorption/reflection of projectiles. I could be wrong, but I think there are still bonus increase damage of weapons when a shield absorbs damage. At least if it doesn’t, it would be nice to add.

4K is very little. I would like to be able to get a bonus from the skill at least x2, maybe x3, 12K front shields weapons would be cool. Yes, it still won’t hold damage for a long time, but as a temporary shelter + help in accurate shooting would be very helpful. Plus, I would like to know how much shield is left weapon. Now this can be understood only by the visual effect of disabling the shield. There may be a skill that would increase the front shield 20 times, but would provoke enemies to attack you. This will work in solo, because enemies and so will attack you. It will work very well as a group.

It would be nice to introduce a class mod under this, something like:
Your iron bear gets all the effects of your equipped shields.
When any of your shields or iron bear take damage, you have a small chance to activate or enhance the effect of your shield. Allies receive a copy of your effect when activated.

Let’s say that passive effects would be stronger for 5 seconds, effects that depend on the condition would work without the condition for 5 seconds(say, damage-enhancing shields increase damage, but do not absorb the shield), and boosters just dropped out.

I don’t know how strong or crazy that sounds. It’s just that when I first saw the name skill tree, I thought it would encourage a smart tank. But I really don’t see the point in this tree now. There’s nothing special about it. In fact, you only need three abilities, these are bubble bear, red line and desperate measures. Well, the bubble can be taken with one point, and the rest can be add with the help of the class mod. Everything else makes very little sense. I can be wrong, but from my side it looks like this. I was particularly frightened by the prospect 3/3 red line + tenacious defense. How should I use this? I understand that it is possible to have 2 points in the red line, but still, it has a very powerful anti-synergy.

Okay, I’m really skidding, so I’ll leave it at that. I just wanted to say that Teddy chuck works well because Moze’s skills contribute very well to this. I don’t think we should nerf it. I think other aspects need to be strengthened because they work extremely poorly in difficult situations.

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#19

I forgot about the little Hyperion shield. That’s a great idea.

As for tenacious defense it does work if you don’t get thin red line and use a recharger or stop gap. I wouldn’t say it’s anti synergy, it’s more of just two different ways to spec into the skill tree. Which to me adds more diverse value.

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#20

Well, I don’t see anything wrong with that. Simply, like would obtain although would a small the combination of. Something more than a lot of damage in bleed mode. It is clear that this will be ignored by most of the players, although it is also in some way playstyle. But I don’t know who would like to crawl on knees all the time.