Hey I was just wondering if you think the recent buffs to Zane are good enough.
I am kind of on the fence about that. While buffs stacking twice and better scaling for VM sound crazy I don’t think Zane is in a good spot now. Still seems underperforming. Especially in regards to f*ckn Amara now with her VM classmod. And Zane still can’t run while ads or shoot while sprinting.
Didn’t he get a op class mod as well?
i legit don’t know
40% damage while sliding or bunnyhopping like an Idiot. Would not call that OP tbh…
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Not enough, for m4, kill skill stacking is kind of hard sometimes, 15 sec duration seems low. The main problem for Zane remains the lack of pasive damage skills.
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no it is not enough but unless they remove megavore and do norharm+ttb dmg shenanigans they will have to perpetually upscale everything which introduced huge powercreep.
when your smg does 300 dmg per shot and with throw reload you can hit for 150k your game has massive problems. MH4 is not something tha will stay in the game it is just upscaling testing ground. give me a non tediore non crit swap non shooting portuberance in my feet cuz transformer anvil run on mayhem 4 that looks like reasonable game play on zane. every badass armored cov and tink armored cov is upscaled from base game to a factor of 28.5
yes you can still do it, as i can but that is no way a game play loop that works for zane.
in comparison bl2 uvhm has x4 times scaling with no enemy buffs and with debuff element and added skill points from 50-60 and then 60-72 without changing difficulty and majority of fanbase deemed it unplayable and too hard. While it was extremely managable. on the other hand we have level 50 cap that is almost x30 upscaled for some mobs and x8.5 upscaled for basic mobs, no skill points class mods that give only 5 extra points as opposed to bl2 having 25 on legendaries and 13 on purples. draw conclusions yourself there
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Zane’s movement speed: Violent speed + SNTNL anointed + shield attribute movement speed when full/depleted + Bad dose + Supersonic man + running through barrier + sliding relic
Zane’s shield recharge delay: Ready for action + standing near barrier + Quick breather + Barrier anointed
Amara : Mindfulness. One skill to rule them all
That’s about the balance in this game. They put a 5 points skill (a skill that make him himself in the first place) of a character who is considered weakest to a class mod for a character who is considered strongest
I feel like want to write another topic just to express how salty I am right now
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Also the scaling on Spiritual driver seems a lot better than VM
There is litetally no point in playing Zane anymore.
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If they think the new sliding mechanic is so fun that every body want to use it then they’re dead wrong. Imagine killing an enemy in close combat: “hold on, let me back off to a distance so I can slide to you, shoot a few shots that might or might not hit you, to deal an amount of damage that might or might not kill you”. Just as dumb as killing some enemies by constantly jumping and slamming in The Pre-sequel
If they thought this mechanic was fun, they gave it to amara tho. Because she is clearly their favorite. I wonder why. I have my theory.
Amara has not seen ANY nerfs (and I am not asking for them) and still outperforms any other character while others got nerfed into oblivion or like Zane, got breadcrumb buffs that don’t Adress any of his issues.
Oh Zane lacks damage? Slapping on some 20% contitional gun damage should do the Trick then.
No!
Give him some synergy.
A skill to run while ads or shoot while sprinting would go a long way. They gave amara his VM, why can’t Zane have Mozes or Wilhelms skill?
What about some passive bonus damage against frozen?
Nah man that’d be soooo OP and could potentially dethrone our beloved Amara.
Except it wouldn’t
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Why is shooting a protuberance or throwing a tediore in the same category as crit swapping? What’s wrong with using gear the way it was made as long as you’re not exploiting the game.
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You forgot that Amara can use sliding relic too if she wanted. But it’s not as good as Elemental Projector. Funny that something others throw away as trash, Zane pick it up and use it as a core for his speed build. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure , eh?
The passive for his new classmod should be like that. Better yet, that should be what Violent Speed does from the beginning. Instead they slap it on Moze (one that doesn’t really need it) and call it a day. If you design a character who can scale with speed then allow him to do his things while running should be the first thing come in mind
Why did they buff Violent Speed, Trick of the Light, and Pocket full of Grenades?
No Zane main ive ever heard wanted those buffed. They were fine.
Meanwhile, I will not call the VV stack a buff bc they nerfed one stack. What a pathetic and tepid “buff”.
Meanwhile the skills weve been saying not only need a buff, they are irrelevant and need to become VIABLE - Nerves of Steel, DTM, Like a Ghost… werent touched.
I honestly cant believe they didnt allow Playing Dirty to be stacked with 10 shots.
I would not expect Zane to be buffed in any meaningful way going forward. They had their chance and they clearly want him to struggle compared to other VH’s.
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I don’t think they want Zane to struggle. To some degree, they probably want every vault hunter to be relatively balanced compared to each other. I do believe though that they’re very careful while buffing characters to avoid any backlash if they end up going a bit too far. I remember at launch how the community was on fire because of how “Fl4k was OP”. That is probably the kind of situation they want to avoid.
On the other hand, I’d much rather have them buff a character too much, and then tone it down. It’s just frustrating to wait/expect a buff for a character, wait two months and then get what we got. They’re making some strange decision (i.e.: Zane’s and Fl4k’s new classmod dedicated drop location compared to Amara’s and Moze’s) and I hope they’ll address in the next patch note in some type of way. I just want them to communicate with us, and hopefully tell us what we can expect for Zane down the road.
I agree though that right now we’re always getting the short end of the stick, and it sucks. As much as I like Zane, I just feel like I’m wasting my time grinding gear or doing basically anything with him in the game right now. It sucks always feeling like you’re being inefficient, especially by choice if that makes any sense.
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I am really considering quittung Zane for good since amara is the better Zane right now.
I am just waiting for the Moment to be kicked out of the take down for playing Zane.
I don’t think GB will tell us weather we can expect further buffs. They said they are constantly trying to improve the game but if their improvements consist out of generic conditional % increases instead of a propper rework, I am done.
Zane has too much useless stuff (looking at you techspert and nerves of steel), almost no synergy (Infiltrator Breaks shields while Zanes entire undercover tree, except ready for Action focuses on shield uptime, also using rough rider means wasting 5 skillpoints), and had his staple gimmick stolen.
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Not that they didn’t buff him enough. They buffed him the wrong way. Of all the DPS choices in Hitman tree, they pick the worst (fire rate/reload/movement speed). They’re inferior compare to damage/ multishot
I am wondering why they had to make the buffs Stack instead of a flat increase.
Removing the 1st bullet cindition on dtm while maintaining the CD would have been nice.
It would not be substancial but it would have removed on of those damn requirements Zane is overwhelmed with.
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Making it stacks twice and Zane happen to be able to use 2 action skills so he can trigger Seeing Red twice. Make sense? Such a great synergy there
Again, they focus their attention to that “one of a kind” capstone.
I think they are definitely enough for M3, but M4 just shakes the whole chessboard, because momentum based skills just aren’t quite as good. 90% of Zane’s skills are conditional - and the harder a difficulty gets, the more conditional buffs become less valuable compared to passive/easy to proc ones. Like Trick of the Light is an awesome multiplicative bonus - but M4 will not afford you the flexibility to pull it off consistently. Stackable kill skills are great - provided you don’t get holed up by an anointed tink for 5 minutes straight.
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