Is everyone raiding or is anyone trying out their existing builds on existing content in M4?
I’ve been taking Zane through the proving grounds on M4 and I definitely feel the difference. For example, I got to the end of one run with 90 rounds of ammo left where normally I would have between 230 and 300. I haven’t done Slaughter Shaft yet because the raid wrung me out.
The bottom line is I would like to hear what the other Zane mains are experiencing with their builds at M4.
super easy mobbing by far but i have only done few places. mobbing is very fun now, bossing (raiding as you might refer to it) not so much but hey that is x10 of base game so that is a bit overdone and will be toned down over time. Bl2 uvhm was x4 of base game +slag and people kept crying like babies for 5 years upscaling triple health bars enemies to x30 is a bit ridiculous. that said nothing unplayable but they gotta keep in mind when you lock gear behind m4 doors casual players will want to get it and they won’t be able to handle it and that is where they get a lot of ■■■■ storm for (GBX). they should have done something more reasonable like 500% no buffs to player no buffs to enemies but more mob density/badass spawns
weirdest thing i have experienced by far between mobbing graveward traunt chupa and haunt kills is that keyholder rotch and generally badass rotches were unreasonably more durable than bosses. i will report back when i have done any grounds or arenas but more hp on enemies more bullet expenditure is to be expected 
Basically I did basic mobbing runs. Athenas/Anvil/Skywell etc with my triple Scourge mobbing build and it still wrecked really hard. Didn’t really try it in Shaft. I tested out the insta kill GW build and it still worked but took 4 quick shots all perfectly on target to happen. Did some Traunt kills with my mobbing Scourge build it wrecked. Did a couple Heck runs as well which were very easy. Overall using the same build it didn’t feel too much different then getting bad modifiers in MH3. But I still have a lot to go try with him to really feel the difference.
After a few hours of doing that I spent a year and a day in the Raid failing on Fl4k.
i can still one shot grave with scourge unfoirgiven tbh but i have 130% on swap scourge on me. however that is not exactly a metric to measure a game it is just an exploit
with regular sscourge 2 shots is enough i dno why you need 4.
Because I don’t crit swap. I don’t like doing that kind of stuff.
I’ve found a build using clone+shield that worked very nicely on M4. Having a lot of fun and definitely feeling like I matter during coop.
Clone handles himself very well now, letting him proc ccc with a Lyuuda.
I also did some damage testing with the Bandit tactical and speedbuilds as that has gotten the biggest buff.
Prior to buff I’d maybe do 200%/300% base damage with RR, infiltrator, snowdrift, Vanquisher etc.
Now…from standing doing 800 I now hit 9000+ per shot without factoring in killskills, Supersonic Man or barrierbuff, because it one shots the Bandit tactical and I can’t see the damage numbers…
Unless you have godly reflexes or a huge flat battleground it isn’t great for mobbing, but damn, that damagescaling is intense. I had great fun one clipping bandit vehicles in the Splinterlands.
okay my current opinion is that this is way too much especially with triple health bar enemies
shield hp or armor hp is managable but if you are not doing r word catpurse facepuncher shenanigans you will run out of ammo on COV
After seeing amara’s new class MOD in action, she does at better job at the speed build than zane does by a long shot haha
Sad but true. Zane has 3 skills dedicated to that play loop then they give Amara one class mod that blows it out of the water. Granted, it’s not purely the class mod; Amara is just a beast and that’s all there is to it. Case in point, she is the ONLY character that didn’t receive a buff in the patch and she still had no problem soloing the raid.
I’m not surprised, her being so flexible with elements and elemental damage seems the takedown was just suited for her. Moxys put a video up of him using the class mod and he used a green gun. No boost 1416 damage, with boost from skills and elemental projector it was 71k. Crazy jump.
I saw it too and I would be lying to you if I don’t admit I’m a little bit jealous. Not for myself of course, but for Zane. 
On a more serious note, it does make me wonder why it is that GBX keeps pushing the damage envelope of Amara soooo much more than say Zane. I know every character can’t be the most powerful but the difference between the two is just staggering. Case in point, one of Amara’s anointment bonuses at launch is and remains 300%, while the equivalent-ish bonus for Zane was 75% (clone swap), since increased to 130%, and 50% (SNTL). Now I’m fully aware that it is not a true apples-to-apples comparison but when you think about what Amara’s base damage is from her kit compared to Zane’s why the f*ck would she need a 300% anointment in the first place? It just seems like overkill. And I’m not mad at her for having it mind you, I just don’t understand why they didn’t apply a similar treatment to all the characters.
I’ve had a play about with lvl 50 moze and amara, even without annoited gear the damage output/survivability and overall gameplay was just on another level to zane. There was some fun builds that came out of zane but with MH4 enemies being even bigger bullet sponges, zane is more effort than the reward now. Even though they did add some stacking, amara and moze skills that stack are higher and so much better.
The grind is real and the ammo pools are now laughably low for all this health scaling. I just got my Zane to 50 and swapped in some better gear I had waiting in the wings for him but he’s still taken a serious hit now that basic mob enemies take time to chew through and Badasses, Heavies and Annointed are practically bosses in their own right now, its ridiculous.
The fact that most Zane builds rely so much on his kill skills and now stacking them to get their maximum effects means that keeping that momentum going through mobs/Slaughter arenas is going to be almost impossible unless you spec all the way down to Seein’ Red. So any partial use of the blue tree is going to have it’s effectiveness painfully reduced as a result until the next level cap update and we get more points to use.
I had hoped Gearbox was past this sort of beta phase experimentation post-release, they should have learned from doing OP levels in 2. This is the same kinda set of initial issues they had then, only we don’t have Slag to to debuff enemies and all our gear stays exactly on level compared to the overly buffed enemy health.
In my experiences with Mayhem 4, my build seems pretty good. I’ve worked on a Clone / Dome build with CCC and the Big Boom Blaster for Shields, grenades and support for the boyo’s 
The build itself is fun to play and does well in all facets of the game. I suppose that the issues I run into is keeping up with Ammo consumption.
I know that at the moment our Guardian Ranks aren’t working but even with those perks, I feel that we need a bump to our reserves.
The Health scaling and such worked well in Diablo 3 because Mana / Discipline / etc. we’re innately sustainable and regenerated over time. Sadly, our ammo isn’t so lucky.
I also feel like we can lean into the modifiers more and offer a variety of ways to enhance difficulty without a pure adjustment to Delta.
All in all, the Zane changes are nice and I’m excited to try my hand at a Kill Skill build again.
Kinda considering turning Amara into a four Shockwaves build if I find that com. It’s kinda cheesey. But it’s entirely me, so, I’d at least have that lol.
I kinda wish they’d make kill skills proc for multiple people if they’re solidly contributing to a kill. Especially now that they stack.
As an aside and slightly off-topic, but I find it odd that the hit man tree does nothing to buff or change little Zoomer. Yet, with this new patch, Fl4k gets a bunch of pet buffs in many of his skills.
Is this something we should want? Maybe it’s good that we can take skills from that blue tree and use Clone / Dome?
I do enjoy the synergy and the hybrid builds Zane generates, however it’s worrisome that his capstones aren’t the game changers we see in the other VH’s.
Sorry, back on topic! 
I’m gonna need someone to show me a speed zane in action. Because I just tried it on M4 on athena’s and it was a joke. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. Crits are basically impossible. Maybe the problem is that I’m using atlas guns(i assumed that what speed zane’s use but i could be wrong)
People have claimed Atlas is good for speed Zane and I’ve tried really hard to make it work but I find it to be too inconsistent to reliably use. And the reason is that in Borderlands 3 (and BL2 for that matter) damage is calculated at impact not at origin. This means in order to get the full benefit of Violent Momentum you must be moving fast when the bullet hits the target not when you fire the weapon. When you combine that with the fact that once targets are tagged you have no control over the travel time or path of Atlas rounds it’s just hard to be consistent. For example, I tried to get consistent predicable results by shooting straight up then running and sliding. That didn’t always work because depending on where the enemy was the bullets most of the time went straight after the enemy once it was fired, which didn’t give me enough time to run/slide. So the only time I was able to get max damage was when the enemy was far enough away where I could shoot then run/slide at the same time the bullets hit the target. Again, inconsistent.
What does work consistently however is shotgun speed Zane when paired with hit scan weapons like Jakobs shotguns. As for landing crits, that’s going to take skill and practice, but what can help improve your odds are class mods and/or skills that improve accuracy. With a smaller reticle and the tighter spread that it affords it’s easier to land crits if you are good at shooting what you aim at. But even if you aren’t a crit monster any artifact that increases shotgun damage while sliding paired with a good com that boosts shotgun damage should help make up for missed crits by doing good body shot damage.
Finally, Zane’s new class mod is perfect for speed Zane because it addresses the sliding problem by allowing you to get the benefit of its 40% damage boost by jumping. But if you can slide you’ll be able to combine the effects of Violent Momentum along with the class mods special perk to do amazing damage. But it’s a lot of setup and will require practice to master.
GLHF!
[Update 2019-11-29]
@flightx3aa (aka, ThiccFilA) streamed a Carrier build that does indeed leverage speed Zane to great effect. I’m sure he’ll eventually post a build video but I wanted to go on record to update some of my original comment by saying that Atlas can work consistently with speed Zane but at this point it seems limited to the Carrier because of how firing works with this specific gun. This means that if there are other Atlas weapons with the same or similar firing pattern you may be able to make them consistently work too.
If you are interested in this issue then you may want to subscribe to ThiccFilA’s channel so you’ll be notified when he eventually posts the build video.
GLHF!
Or you can just be lame like me and use auto-homing rocket launchers and just forget sliding and jump around like an idiot. Not going to get max damage but you get enough and it sure is fun.