I really hope Gearbox is actually listening to us in these forums.
In regards how the change to beam/tesla grenades appears to have broken some of Moze’s skills. It did get under the skin of a lot of us, and it was more of how it was communicated that really got me in a tizzy. We were told that “as hilarious as it was,” the infinite grenade thing would be fixed in a future patch. And the that patch came and it was ‘oops,’ we fixed one grenade for the circle of slaughter optional quest that unintentionally had this other effect. Not cool.
From listening to Randy Pitchford today on the Borderlands show, they all play this game on the Dev team. They all knew exactly what effect their patch had on the grenades for Moze. There is no possible way they didn’t.
That’s fine. Infinite nade Moze needed to be fixed. We as a community knew that. Why couldn’t you guys have just said that? “Patch note: Fixed MOD to not proc with tesla/beam grenade effects.” Sure there would have been a grumble but we would have been satisfied knowing it was intentional.
Now to what’s broken and what could make us all happy. Those tesla/beam effects are damage from thrown grenades, and honestly they do need to proc the Vampyr skill in some way. However, with how they currently hit, it is completely OP as the skill stands. A fix could be to change the skill to give 20% on direct grenade damage as it currently does, but allow a smaller percent recovery on grenade effect. Say 5% on grenade effect and 20% on direct grenade damage. Or less depending on the actual amount it hits.
This would allow the stormfront, firestorm, and other DOT grenades to still effectively heal Moze. Regardless if she is using a bloodletter or some other build. Giving diversity to her builds and still allowing her to heal.
Just an idea. I honestly don’t know the coding involved, but I do know enough to realize the complexity of such changes. The main thing I ask of the Dev team and the social media team is to not coddle us and tell us the honest truth of such things. If the last patch “fixed” Moze, then tell us, “Hey, we fixed Moze.” We will grumble, sure, but it will get us back to the game instead of whining and bitching here on the forums.
Well put. Frankly i dont care. I havent played the game since they nerfed moze. I dont know why people are saying its ok to nerf these things. Its a single player game. You dont need to do this. Just put it back. They wont. developers dont listen to the community anymore. I come on to these forums to see if they put it back the way it was. Then i might play again. At this point the game is dead for me
RIP Borderlands 3
2 Likes
13igTyme
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
#3
@nob_jok69 Sometimes, even in single player games, nerfs are required. The build was too strong. You could stand still in the center on the Slaughter Shaft and press one button.
If you haven’t been playing since it was fixed I feel sorry for you, but Moze isn’t broken. There are many different builds all capable of clearing content. Myself looks forward to testing the different builds I have made on the new content in hopes of soloing it.
As for the OP @renfried , they did later add it into the notes. Their wording was just different. They said, “We noticed these grenades doing splash damage unintentionally, and will see the effects on various builds.”
But I agree if they can make it work, all be it weaker, with the beam then cool. But there isn’t anything wrong with limiting some interactions. The already have a precedent in past games for limiting or removing some interactions.
Please stop with this mindset.
It’s a single player game so it’s fair for you to have a character that can kill everything just by spamming one button?
that’s a bad and boring game.
at this point why don’t we just play mobile games if we want to win by just spamming a single button?
They basically prove you wrong at every bordelands show but okay.
The problem with Vampyr is that it isn’t standardized to work with all grenades. Nerfing beam grenades just shifted favor toward using child grenades. Imo, they should just change Vampyr to generic health regeneration that stacks. Basically, a health regeneration version of Rising Sh0t. Fast hitting grenades (beam and child) generate stacks faster, but don’t last as long. Harder hitting grenades (nuke) generate stacks slowly, but last longer. Health regeneration isn’t as good as what we currently have, but I’m sure it can be balanced. The reason why I bring up health regen is because I don’t think they can just go “small hits just heals for less” with the current Vampyr design. I could be completely wrong. If all else fails, they could just keep inserting 0.3 second delays.
Something needs to be done for sure. It would be fun to be able to use a fastball to heal up if I wanted to. Being her only skill for self healing, it needs to be more viable. One way or another.
You know what would blow my mind? if the reason why is because they are working on making it work but not as OP. Then they can implement Grenade Mods to work with Iron Bear and be able to recover health/armor (albeit at a reduced rate). Finishing up tweaks and such.
But hey thats just a theory.
On a more realistic note beam grenades I feel were just temperarily disabled to work. One way they could fix it is with dimishing returns. Every hit with the beam weapon you gain less and less health with a sort of CD so you can’t abuse it. I really hope they do not go the regenerating health rate route(tongue twister). SoR does it with shields and it honestly is not that great when I can hop in IB and start recovering my shields without getting a critical kill.
I agree. While the regen could work, it might not be as reliable. I think the lessened amount or diminishing returns route would be best and more controllable.
In terms of keeping her alive, would it be a good idea to rework force feedback to give a percentage of shield directly back instead of start recharging the shield immediately?
I always understood that there were other builds that can allow Moze to do similar things. The most fun I ever had in BL3 was throwing beam grenades. It was just fun plain and simple. It was effective and it was strong but it was fun. If they had just tanked the damage and let it take forever to damage I would have been forever happy running slow killing heal beam grenade builds.
I’d like that. Force Feedback needs to do something other than being a worse version of Shield Reboot. But at the same time, it needs to be useful for builds with larger shield capacities. Adjusting Behind Iron Curtain to also scale with Max Shields could help.
All good… respect your views. However you should respect mine. If that is not the type of gameplay you want then play something else. It wasn’t a one button kill all. frankly it wasnt that much damage. It took a lot longer to clear mobs than some other builds. This is not my point. It was a style that people enjoyed and they shouldnt take it away on a whim. Logic is, if it stayed no one would really care. Wouldnt upset anyone. Take it away and piss a whole lot of people off. Its a no brainer in my eyes.
wow , if something being op in pve game is a problem , Salvador and bloodsplosion would be nerfed to oblivion back when people couldve figure out i could just put any moxxi gun on the left then i can heal myself simply by shooting my gun and bloodsplode pyro pete and voracidous.
borderlands does not need balance , if anyone want the game being more challenging , ask gearbox for difficulty scale . just like borderlands 2 with op system
1 Like
13igTyme
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
#14
@hk.spm123 They devs tried balancing Salvador, but couldn’t without changing his entire action skill.
@nob_jok69 The problem with the build is if I could spam grenades, even with the damage nerf to the Hex, I would use the Quasar and render all enemies completely useless. Then just get a glass cannon teammate and M4 takedown would be as easy as M1 Athenas
My problem when they nerfed the tesla’s was moze did not have a viable action skill to fall back on. To me nades were here action skill. Amara can literally shoot any elemental gun and just heal constantly, plus she can nonstop phasegrasp enemies the whole time. I think thats what got to me.
Infinite grenades was OP, we all agree on that (but it was a lot of fun, damn). They even nerfed the bloodletter because of that build… But I can’t understand why in hell they released that new mod for amara that allows her to practically one shot every boss on M4, on top of the added survivability because of the high speed (as she needed more damage or survivability). I’m not saying that they need to nerf her, she’s fun to play, but they need to bring the others on par. They “balanced” Moze promising us more build diversity but the buff to IB it’s not enough (even if it’s very welcomed). Moze can’t depend to an entire tree to survive, I love to play BM/SoR, but it’s a “kill before being killed” style of play atm… Good luck with that in M3/M4…
If they plan to release more and more difficult content, they need to step up with the balancing, otherwise a lot of frustrated players will just quit the game. I love the series, and I love being OP in that kind of games. I’ve played countless hours on BL2, even with all the glitches and flaws the game had, because it was a lot of fun…