Mind Sweeper, Mini-Grenades, etc

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

So the Mind Sweeper mod has mini grenades that proc 25% of the time on crit. I feel it’s pretty well known that they are based on the gun element and the gun damage, to determine said mini-grenade damage. Vampyr can totally proc from them.

Does anyone have math on this stuff? I have been doing some highly informal testing, but it seems Desperate Measures affects the mini-nade damage? Also, possibly manufacturer crit damage on the class mod itself? (In my case, Hyperion, Crossroads and Butcher.) So… What percentage of the gun damage do they do? Does crit damage really affect them? Do anointments that add extra damage for the next couple mags affect them? Etc. I have many questions on how this mod works, but have find no answers…

1 Like
#2

I haven’t tested the damage but I know the mini grenades can be buffed by Torgue Cross Promotion. I’ve killed myself a few times.

#3

Same. Downed myself today a few times with ratches charging at me.

The grenades are weird. During the side mission where you’re playing the game beta, you’re supposed to buy the upgrade to lower the boss’s armore so you aren’t there for five minutes shooting. I watched as one mini-grenade instagibbed him before the offer even popped up on screen. Other times, I feel like they just tickle enemies.

#4

Are you sure they’re influenced by gun damage? I had no idea that was the case. If that’s the case the mod is better than I thought it was.
I’m 99% sure they can crit - that’s the only way I can explain the massive damage variation (from a couple of thousand to over twenty thousand).

#5

Pull the Holy Pin might cause them to crit.

#6

This all made me curious so I went and did a bit of testing. Early results show that it scales off the crit damage that triggered the grenade. I tested on a Dahl with no crit buffs and a Jakobs with Type A & B crit. The results where consistent with both.

The grenade then gets grenade damage boosts from gear and guardian rank.

My testing so far shows:

Minesweeper Grenade = Crit Damage x (1 + COM Grenade dmg + Guardian Rank)

The grenade also procs Fire in the Skag Den which is calculated as such:

Minesweeper Grenade FITSD = Crit Damage x Fire in The Skag Den x Fire Multiplier

I tested this with 2 Minesweeper coms, one had +grenade damage and 2 FITSD, the other had no relevant boosts and 3 FITSD.

The following is pure speculation so don’t take it as anything else.

The minesweeper grenade is seemingly treated as a normal grenade. I believe therefore that Pull the Holy Pin not only lets it crit but possibly even allows it to reproc itself. If it can do this that would explain the wild variation in damage as successive procs would just get progressively more damage.

As an illustration of what I mean, suppose I have +40% grenade damage boosts. The initial crit I proc the first grenade off does 100 damage.

100 x 1.4 = 140

Suppose this then crits because of Pull the Holy Pin.

140 x 2 = 280

That is already massively bigger than the initial crit. Now suppose this procs a second grenade.

New Grenade Damage = 280 x 1.4 = 392

If this were also to crit you’d get 784 damage.

Which to recap the total damage is:

Total = Initial Crit + 1st Grenade + 2nd Grenade = 100 + 280 + 784 = 1164

1164 damage from an initial 100 damage crit!!! Although this would require a lot of luck. 3/3 Pull the holy pin I believe would still only allow you to get a grenade crit to reproc and crit once every 200 times you score a crit.

@sammantixbb I suspect your Traunt kill might of had this sought of rng applied.

5 Likes
#7

I’ve went and tested it again. I’ve been recording gameplay with the Mindsweeper so I can watch it slowed down. I’m still not sure if they crit - actually less sure now than I was before, since I haven’t seen the red text appear for any mini-grenade explosion - but the damage variation is much, much bigger than I thought. I’ve managed to get one incendiary grenade to do 300k damage to an anointed tink. I’m reckoning Drowning in Brass and Phalanx Doctrine add to the damage, because I haven’t been able to replicate that kind of damage on a boss where I can’t get stacks, and this was using the same guns with the same modifers.

#8

When you say crit damage, you mean the total damage done by the critical attack that procced Mindsweeper? That seems to match the results I’ve been getting as well.

1 Like
#9

Yeah, I haven’t tested it with a grenade or anything so I can’t be sure but that’s what it seems like.

1 Like
#10

That seems reasonable and explains why I’ve been getting very high numbers with the Phebert. I tested it against Graveward to get a rough idea of the numbers.

On a 32K crit, I seem to be getting 62K mini-grenades (with a 60% grenade damage bonus from the mod and an artifact) and 208K mini-grenade crits. (Not sure if one of the mini-grenades procced the other, though).

If you play this at a quarter speed, the numbers are visible at around the 47 second mark.

1 Like
#11

I haven’t seen the video but do you possibly have any splash damage boosts on? 32k -> 62k seems like there’s a missing multiplier that 60% Grenade Damage can’t account for.

#12

So, possibly:

Is it possible Facepuncher has a negative crit bonus that isn’t necessarily tangible, but, when I switched to Bear having two crit-able weapons (Target Softening and CapArm can crit) the new bonus made the Stickies better…and the Stickies made mini nades, and I had the blessing of holey whine and rng-sus? And all those things happening in one move made it hilarious?

#13

I think it was probably just the blessing of rngsus as I don’t believe grenade crits get a bonus or reduction from your gun.

#14

The Stickies from the White elephant do though

(see white elephant Unforgiven Amara?)

#15

I’m sure I don’t. My mod has 18% crit damage, 30% grenade damage and 50% Vladof accuracy.
My artifact is a slam/effect with victory rush with 40% magazine size, 30% grenade damage and 8% movement speed. I’ve double-checked everything and turned off Mayhem just to be sure and got the same result now. Somewhere around 58 seconds I get the same numbers. (I had a hard time getting a good view…)

#16

Thats a normal crit.

image

Pull the holy pin states it doesn’t receive bonuses for critical hit damage.

Hmm, we must be missing a component. As

32k x 1.6 = 52k

1 Like
#17

Right right. But.

If the mini grenades form based on crit damage. Then a boost to the Stickies crit would boost everything. Even if the grenade crits weren’t boosted. The difference between exponentially rolling up from two and exponentially rolling up from 4? Right?

1 Like
#18

Yeah, although from what I’ve seen of your footage it seemed you started the chain reaction before getting into IB. The time delay between the initial crit and the second grenade would probably be around 2-3 seconds.

1 Like
#19

Ah, okay. That part I wasn’t aware of. I was busy trying to not die again :joy::joy:

1 Like
#20

Maybe it’s the bonus splash damage from fire in the Skag Den being added to the grenade, since they’re both the same element? I’m only seeing a single number, where there ought to be two. I don’t remember how many points I have in it, but I can double check.

2 Likes