What makes something "OP" and why being Powerful and OP are not interchangeable

Borderlands 3 Zane the Operative
#1

What makes a character OP or a weapon or grenade?

In my opinion the Term OP applies to something outperforming everything around it regardless of player skill.

-For Grenades it was the Recurring Hex paired with Moze’s Infinite Grenade build

-For Boss Killing it was FL4K’S Fade Away Queens Call combo.

-For Augments it’s Amara’s +300% damage after Phaseslam Annointed Effect.

@Gentlemann has an interesting combo that allows you to have Infinite Ammo using the Facepuncher and Cutpurse artifact, which is pretty OP

@GimmickBuilds has a build that does a crazy amount of AoE damage through the Dopplebanger and Nova Berner shield, which is extremely powerful.

Learn to know the Difference, having a strong build and having an OP build are very different. The Facepuncher/Cutpurse combo requires no input after you put your clone out, the Dopplebanger/Nova Berner requires you placing your clone and timing the explosion.

I’m not putting down the Facepuncher build, it’s amazing, and Kudos to Gentleman for figuring it out.

There are so many powerful builds across all characters, you don’t NEED to be OP to be successful. I personally run a CCC build just because I’m not a big fan of the Clone, CCC is very powerful but requires an understanding of skills and aiming to work.

Don’t be afraid of trying new builds because they aren’t out-DPSing Amara or FL4K. Find what makes your playstyle powerful and lean into it.

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#2

Nothing is OP in a game with no PVP…

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#3

This argument gets touted a lot. But it’s just not good. In a game where everyone is asking about “the meta”, they also wanna handwave things away from balance by saying “it’s not pvp”. OP in a PVE game means “Makes Beating The Game Without Playing It Possible”.

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#4

I kinda strongly disagree, when you can power through anything in the game using just one method and nothing in the game can beat it, I’d call it OP.

My issue isn’t that in PvE only games the player shouldn’t be powerful. It’s that power comes from your skill as a player.

That’s why I consider CCC powerful, IF you hit your headshots, the enemy will freeze and you can really overpower the battlefield, but it’s because of YOUR skill in getting headshots.

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#5

You are pressing the buttons for your game. If it’s boring for you, you can make it harder for yourself. If you don’t want to use something because it’s OP then just don’t use it.

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#6

And just like that you lose all credibility. In what world is that OP if it is outdone by dozens of others in most circumstances? Learn the damage formula before speaking.

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#7

I’m not saying whether things being OP is bad or good, they just are. What I’m saying is that people use OP and Powerful synonymously, which is a mistake in my opinion.

#8

Wow no need to be rude, but by itself it’s the most powerful Augment hands down, there’s no competition. Without investment into any tree, you get +300% Damage for 12 seconds, you don’t need to hit your target to get the buff, you just get it.

I may not completely understand the damage formula, but I know that Augment gives a higher damage bonus than all other Augments.

#9

But you are one of those people as two of the things you mentioned are FARRRRRRR from OP

#10

sigh It is a standard bonus, additive with same and multiplicative only with base. Yes, it is good and the best standard bonus but once you get some more of those mods from your skills, GR, gear, etc the full multiplicative bonuses (crit, element, bonus, splash, defense down, etc) crush it.

#11

I can’t really agree with that. Is the interaction good/powerful? I mean, yeah of course. But OP? I really don’t feel like it is. Moze player would say so probably because Zane can do something better than she can in terms of chucking Tediore. Other than that, yeah getting unlimited ammo is great, but does it really overshadows other options for Zane? To me, I feel like it simply opens up possibilities. You wanted to do a sniper build, but never could because the ammo reserve for it is so very low? Now you can.

I feel like as a whole, the community tends to tag a lot of stuff as OP that simply aren’t. Don’t forget even the “OP” tediore chucking Zane is inferior in terms of DPS and survivability to other builds.

#12

Sure there are more DPS options. In my opinion things that have a high payout for little to no input have a sense of “OP”. When it comes to the Facepuncher/Cutpurse combo, infinite ammo for just just dropping the clone is very powerful, but since it requires no Input after the drop, it crosses that threshold(for me).

I’m not Condemning it, it great, I don’t use it because I’m enjoying being a frosty boi. If it’s a glitch, I don’t want it fixed, I think it’s a cool option.

#13

To quote the Double Barrel loading screen tip

“There’s no way this could be exploited” implied wink

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#14

I just quoted this yesterday tbh

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#15

In PVE I see the term OP = fun sucking. We’ll use Moze and the Hex as an example. If u had a Moze in ur party sprinting ahead of the group while u search thru the piles of flesh and loot praying to god u get one decent weapon to replace ur old gear… oh wait Moze is traveling to the next map while I only made it to the second room… wooow such fun :frowning:
The morale of the story here is if a weapon/shield/grenade/artifact by itself can clear an area with no help or reason to the point that u are taking away others fun, then yes the weapon/shield/grenade/artifact is OP. With some builds there are certain items that it’s hard to find a replacement for just cause it’s the epitome of ur build/theme, but that doesn’t make the item OP.

Another point of perspective here, is that Borderlands is a FPS/looter/RPG. There’s millions of items u can find, an endless sea of possibilities. There’s multiple build paths for u to choose from, some good, some bad. But the decision is up to u the player.

Now let’s use Hex Moze here again.
Due to how powerful the build was perceived (and truly was, u could of deleted nearly all ur keybinds and still kill everything) u just plain saw no other reason to go another path than Hex Moze. Meaning that u as the player felt that there were no other options even worth trying. Now all the personal choice has been taken away, a feeling of being pigeon holed into only one option or ur a NOOB IDIOT for doing anything different. All the flavor and what this game is about has been taken away. Again a sense of unfun, a sense of the character being obsolete without extremely particular gear. If I would actually play Moze u would kno this is not the case, but for someone from the outside looking in that has no knowledge of Moze may think/feel that way.

#16

what are you talking about ? Who are you playing with that takes the fun out of it for you and if they are why not boot them.

Thats a you problem.

#17

I’m talking about certain characters/builds that are used in games that take the fun out of the game for other people.

#18

comes back to a you problem.

Take the last game for example, if someone came into my game with a sham at 100% and an explosive norfleet and just mopped up the map and I wanted more a challenge I could just kick them. Or if I am with friends, we can talk about what we want to do etc… So the only reason it takes the fun out of the game is if I let it.

I don’t get the mentality of something is OP, so it’s not fun for me so it must be nerfed because if I don’t like it why should anyone else have fun with it.

Now I am not talking glitches like the smasher one (although that was fine with me too) I am talking one build or run/shield combo that is just way better than others.

#19

And that’s exactly the point is that they are way better than others and u shouldn’t have to “gimp” ur build so ur buddy playing Zane can activate his kill skills. I shouldn’t have to ask my buddy to not use certain equipment just cause it’s busted. That’s when I consider an item OP and needs to be looked at from a balancing perspective. All I was trying to get across is why some people may perceive weapons/builds as OP. Wasn’t saying I experienced any of that when I play BL3 myself, but can see where others are coming from. Personally I believe all current characters are OP in certain areas, but that’s what gives them their identity.

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