[Build] Moze - Did somebody say "EXPLOSION"?!

With so much talk about how Iron Bear’s scaling isn’t worthwhile endgame, a lot of people are getting turned away from playing Moze, thinking she doesn’t make the cut endgame. With this build, I’m going to prove just how wrong that is. While Ironbear may not have a place endgame, Moze is (in my opinion) the strongest endgame character.

You want explosions? I don’t mean some explosions, nor do I mean lots of explosions, nor even a metric ton of explosions, I mean infinite, non-stop explosions. If that’s what you want, you’ve come to the right place. If that’s not what you want, I pity you.

For the build, you’re going to start by unbinding your action skill. Not literally, but we’re a better iron bear than iron bear could ever be, so you might want to rebind it to something out of the way so you don’t accidentally call iron bear when you mean to throw ALL OF THE GRENADES.

For the tree: Moze Build Tree
Video: Proving Grounds - Discipline, Circle of Slaughter

Botomless mags is our tree of choice. While the little 5% ammo regen nodes may not seem like much at first, they really matter a lot when the entire build is together. It’s the difference between a “good” magazine size, and literally never reloading. Then into Demolition woman for, of all things, primarily survivability from Vampyr, and Means of Destruction for even more ammo.

The core synergies here are Ogre providing tons of splash damage utilizing bottomless mags to never stop firing, providing more ammo and grenades from Means of Destruction, and the grenades themselves providing more grenades. So it’s just a constant infinite cycle of more ammo for more explosions for more ammo for more explosions. While explosions are healing you. mmmmm, EXPLOSIONS!

Choices should be mostly self explanatory, but I’ll cover a few that may be a bit more confusing.

1.) No Scrappy? We never reload, never run out of ammo, never need to swap weapons. In fact, only one of our weapons matters. The rest are just to match manufacturer for Matched Set. That’s why we grab Stoke the Embers instead. Even though we do extremely little fire damage, it’s something, where Scrappy is literally nothing to us and we just need the points to advance the tree.

2.) Why so much mag size? Ammo regen is based on mag size. The larger the mag, the more we regen. There’s a balance between fire rate and mag size, and for Ogre, we want it all.

3.) No Rushin’ Offensive? Throwing grenades still stops sprint, and we constantly throw grenades. So it’s a waste of a point. Also, not to often you actually want to sprint and shoot from the hip. Up to you though, it’s not detrimental, I just didn’t find it worthwhile.

4.) Seem to be actively avoiding putting points in Iron Bear? Yup, certainly are. With the full build if you ever activate Iron Bear you’ve made a terrible, terrible mistake. It will likely get you killed in Mayhem 3. You get in, realize exactly where you went wrong in life, exit IB (or get forced to exit from it getting oneshot by someone breathing on it), and by the your grenades have stopped landing, and thus stopped leeching, aaaaaaaand dead.

5.) Pull the Holy Pin: This is actually very important. Not only is it a lot of extra grenade damage, but the crits from grenades (which being of the tesla variant, so they crit constantly), but all those crits also keep Redistribution procced for ammo regen even when you’re not actually hitting anything with your rifle.

For gear, there’s a few items you want.

Weapon: Ferocious Ogre: (preferably “Engulfing” for larger explosions). Ogre is the perfect match for the build. High mag size, high RoF, and every shot is an explosion. What more to say? If you’re still waiting on an Ogre, a high mag torgue using impact can suffice. (don’t use sticky, you want the instant explosion for consistent ammo regen). The second best option to Ogre is Bearcat. Again, more explosions, and the RoF matches the mag count well enough to work.

Shield: The Transformer: Good stats, but more importantly not only immune to shock, but adds shock damage instead as health to shields. Important to protect ourselves from our own grenades.

Class Mod: Blast Master (preferably “blood-sucking”). Grants a bunch more grenades, and increases splash damage the longer you go without reloading, eventually doubling it. Which we never reload, so it’s a match made in heaven.

Grenade: Hex (preferably “cloning”), or Stormfront. Hex is preferred, but both are great.

Artifact: Anything that boosts assault rifle damage, splash damage, grenade damage, or best a combination of these.

Other weapons: Just match vladof on the manufacturer for Matched Set. You’ll never really use any of the other weapons, so it doesn’t matter. But if you can pick, I’ve found Lyuda, Faisor, and Annexed Damned all work great with the build if you get tired of EXPLOSIONS.

For leveling, you can certainly use Ironbear. While leveling, Iron Bear is fantastic. Use double miniguns with “Exploding. Bullets.” and IB will basically grant you a short taste of the build, minus the grenade spam.

Playstyle? Uhh… hold down the trigger, keep spamming the grenade button, and point in the general direction of enemies. It’s pretty hard to die with this build to be honest, so long as you keep firing and keep throwing out grenades. Though you will need to be hitting enemies with Ogre once in a while for some grenade regen from Means of Destruction if there isn’t enough enemies for Hex to keep itself going.

To demonstrate the power here, I’ve recorded a mayhem 3 Discipline Proving Ground. Once the build fully came together, I don’t ever need to consider what the mayhem modifiers might be, because we’re just too powerful to care. In this recording, we had 70% less normal bullet damage (which is our Ogre), and enemies take 50% less damage from normal bullets (again hit to ogre), and enemies have 30% chance to reflect back projectiles (again hit to ogre). Does it matter? Nope. Still easily get all optional objectives.

IB may be completely useless endgame, but Moze is an unstoppable machine of death and explosions. While at first I was disappointed by Moze when IB failed me getting into TVHM, once I figured out how to make her a true Vladof Solider, I was happy again with a fulfilled character archetype. RIP Iron Bear. Long Live EXPLOSIONS!

Funny Side note: Moze will still occasionally credit Iron Bear for kills when you get kills with Ogre. Probably due to “Exploding. Bullets.”. So Iron Bear still lives on inside your rifle.

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I haven’t had a lot of time to play and am only around my mid level 20s, but this is the build I’m working towards myself. I’ve just had it all theory crafted in my head but it’s nice to see a post explaining how it works end game

I’m so happy they included the Ogre again. It’s weird that it’s Vladof now after using the Torgue version for so long but still one of my favorite weapons!

Good job!

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The Ogre was an Atlas weapon in BL1, so it’s been all over the place in terms of manufacturers.

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I understand the change of ownership from Atlas between BL1 and BL2. With the bankrupcy of Atlas following the events of BL1, it makes sense that another manufacturer would acquire the designs. I don’t understand why Torgue would have let it go to Vladof though, given its “commercial success”. Vladof would have had to pay an arm and a leg for it. Though with Torgue getting out of “spinny guns” between BL2 and BL3, maybe they sold it as part of a rebranding strategy? Or, maybe campaign of carnage was just too large of a money sink and they needed to sell it to get back into the black.

Trying to apply business logic to borderlands… Either way, I’m fine with whichever company is manufacturing it so long as it exists. Heck, being vladof means we can run lyuda for bossing in the build so fine by me =p

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No offense, but surely if your goal was explosions, you’d have put points in demolition woman. It’s a nice alternative to what I’ve seen out there, though.

I do have points in demolition woman, a lot of points. But having more points in endless munitions is more explosions. The only extra explosions in demolition woman is the 20% chance from capstone which is easily overtaken by never reloading, and never needing to stop firing.

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I wasn’t referring to you, I apologize. I was meaning this at the build owner on this page. Yeah I was examining the capstone for demolition wondering if it was even worth the effort of getting down to. My goal is to build a strong torgue focused gun damage Moze, which while can use the mech doesn’t rely on it. I’ve been asking around for folks’ opinion without the use of grenades if there was any other options for keeping alive without vampyr and not having to abandon what I’ve specced into. My build is still in it’s early stages but that’s my endgame goal.

I am the build owner on this page =p

The only option aside from grenades for sustain is either moxie weapons, or shield of retribution. None of the moxie weapons really mesh with Moze from what I’ve found, and shield of retribution has a host of issues imho. Losing health gate, an important late tree skill simply being a worse version of a guardian skill, etc.

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I’ve been running pretty much this same build, though I haven’t really messed with the Ogre much. I’ve swapped back and forth between Short Fuse and Forge and they both feel pretty good to me; Short Fuse I think is better suited to mobbing when you’re rolling primary Flakker or Laser-Sploder, I think. With rank 2 Redistribution you can’t really empty out those weapons even without Forge (or mag size increases for that matter). I’ve mostly been running the Forge version since it seems to perform better in boss encounters where those weapons aren’t very good, and there still isn’t much difference when mobbing just because Recursive Hex is so ridiculous.

One thing I will mention is that for farming bosses like Graveward - assuming you’re not just going to pipe bomb him into oblivion - the Mind Melter class mod (or whatever the name of the one that has a 25% chance on crit to spawn a grenade) is capable of pretty ridiculous output on anything where you can sit and spam on a crit spot. Depending on your M3 affixes, if you pair it with a Butcher (incendiary or normal) you’ll often kill him faster than you can with a pipe bomb just because you don’t have to wait for him to get into thrown grenade range to kill him. On really bad M3 rolls, you might have to kill him off when he falls over, but it’s still one of the faster ways of farming him outside of the pipe bomb.

Hopefully 18 days doesn’t count as a bad necro, but thought I would contribute a variant of this that I’ve been playing. I do a couple things slightly differently.

  1. I use IB just a little: 1 point in auto bear. Both equip slots are Vanquisher Rockets/Target softening.

This is only used when you face a particularly difficult fight and need a distraction; or when you’re killing a boss and IB debuffs it while you grenade spam and shoot.

Most of the time you don’t need it and don’t use it. But I have found the “look guys a distraction” function very useful against mobs that include anointed enemies, especially those jerks who have temporary-invincibility phases.

  1. Quasar is my preferred grenade. It gives you enough of the criticals+healing to survive and never reload, but does not put out quite the same damage. But this is a matter of your playstyle - I find it hilarious because enemies are constantly flying all over the place, but some might find this annoying. However, it enables and eases consistent reliance on the Flakker: the knockdown effect gives you time to move to the Flakker’s sweet spot distance.

  2. No argument with greatness of Ogre for this, but there are plenty of decent other choices for primary weapon(s).

It’s actually possible to rocket-spam with this setup, and I like Ruby’s Wrath for that. You can even sustain consistent use of a Hive.

Roisen’s Thorns excels against armored enemies, especially armor/health combos.

The Devastator - especially with the DP prefix - can be very effective, especially if you roll a Mayhem effect that buffs pistols and debuffs ARs. It’s a secondary but respectable choice.

Laser-Sploder and Flakker…because of course.

My point is this isn’t just an Ogre build, and it can be played as Torgue allegiance instead of Vladof.

It’s a great build once you have the Blast Master Com. I don’t even have particularly good gear - my artifact is lousy, my COM’s buffs are all completely useless, and none of my gear is anointed - and M3 isn’t really a struggle, even when unhelpful modifiers pop up.

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