So, level 50, farming and pushing guardian levels in mayhem mode. I notice in the guardian tree there’s a skill called “Shield Reboot” that you get after investing 50 guardian points into survivor.
One of Moze’s deep notable skills “Force Feedback” causes shields to start regen when you get a critical kill.
Shield reboot, which you get for free after 50 guardian levels, causes shields to start regen when you get a kill.
So one of Moze’s primary passive skills, requiring deep investment into one of her trees is just a worse version of a passive skill all characters get for “free”. I’ve tried to see if there’s any synergy between them (having both the guardian passive and force feedback) and there doesn’t seem to be any beneficial effect from having both. Force feedback doesn’t even boost shield regen rate after a critical kill. So once you have the guardian passive available to anyone, there is absolutely zero reason to invest a point into Moze’s tree for it.
Not only is it the same, non-stackable effect, but the “free” guardian version is simply more powerful, proccing off of any kill, where Moze’s skill only procs off of kills scored with a critical hit. So the only time this skill should ever be picked up is by players that have either disabled guardian skills (if that’s possible?), or new players that haven’t yet earned guardian levels. And if the game is going to be anything like BL2, the first max level character is only beginning to scratch the surface of play time.
Any chance for something given to Moze’s skill here? Even if not directly, but if both exist, the shield regen rate is boosted after a critical kill to make the skill point more than completely useless? Feels like the team developing the guardian tree and the team developing Moze’s tree were really on different pages: giving out a much better free version of a primary skill for Moze.
There’s a few skills that have been superseded by other items before, but I can’t really think of any where you simply get a free better version of the skill. One that literally provides the exact same benefit, without any opportunity cost.
Even in the previous cases I can think of where skills would be seen as “redundant”, they weren’t completely overridden, just made less useful through diminishing returns, no longer “worth” the investment. Here, it is not ‘seen’ as redundant, it is redundant - it is “able to be omitted without loss of meaning or function”. There is zero, zip, nadda to grabbing the skill. Not the tiniest, littlest bit of a benefit to be had from having the point in the skill tree. Literally nothing whatsoever.
Force Feedback needs a buff. Currently the regen is almost immediately interrupted by damage before you can get to cover like 9 times out of 10, making the skill largely useless. That Guardian Rank skill makes it even more useless, since you can get the same effect on all kills instead of only on crit kills. In my opinion getting a critical kill with Force Feedback should regenerate 20% of your shield before damage can interrupt the regen. Such a change would go really well with Shield of Retributions strength as a mobbing tree, but wouldn’t help all that much during boss fights, and it would make Force Feedback worth putting a point in even after unlocking the Guardian Rank skill.
Well you first has to unlock it with having over 50/60 lvls
Reminds me of Krieg(Melee Override skill) that breath fire every 15 lvls looks cool and all but by the end is useless
Krieg had another that reduces Skill time if you take damage but the final skill of the tree if you use the skill with 1/3 of life it refills your life and when the skills ends it gets automatically recharged so…
Like I mentioned, hitting level cap is not really a milestone in borderlands for a lot of players. For those that only play to level cap and treat the game as “done”, sure it’s fine. But that’s not the case for many players that had well over 10k badass rank in BL2. (I think mine was somewhere around 35k if I remember correctly?). Badass rank doesn’t level the same way as guardian levels, but 50 guardian levels is still just a little drip in the ocean.
Krieg’s melee override is an example of poor scaling. That would be comparable if Force Feedback gave a flat amount of shield back on critical kill. Early on, might work well, but can’t scale - particularly if BL3 goes into OP8 levels of scaling. It was eventually deemed “not worthwhile” to use, but it still technically did something. Not the case here.
The later example was actually really good synergy, not sure what you’re talking about. You want to remain above health gate. You have one skill that gives you a full heal, and another skill that makes it so if you’re taking damage you can use that full heal again sooner. Like… that’s fantastic, the exact opposite of what we’re talking about. You needed the skill to end sooner so you could use it again sooner to heal again. Add to that his self damage to make it end even sooner for even more healing, and you have some amazing synergy.
Fuel the rampage: Reduces skill cooldown, Reduces cooldown when you take life damage and Allows friendly fire(what on late game is direct ticket to fight for your life what makes having the skill useless)
AND
Release the beast: If you have the skill and use it with 1/3 of life it will fill your life and when the skill ends your skill is instantly recharged
Get what i am saying ? Why the f*** you would want a cooldown reduction when you can have a instant recharge…on max it serves as a failsafe to when you miss the Release the Beast(Still useless with coop since your friends will kick your ass)
You worded it oddly first, never played krieg in all my thousands of hours in BL2 oddly enough. was just… never… once interested in him. But taking a look at his tree, fuel the rampage is a T2 skill, release the beast is a capstone. They don’t necessarily need to be played together. Because fuel the rampage is so early in the tree it could be used with other trees. Also, if you fail to hit release the best correctly (use it at 34% life) then what… you’re out with a full length cooldown. fuel the rampage can help get it back sooner.
Sure, usefulness is certainly diminished, but nowhere near eliminated. I don’t think you’re understanding “not really that worthwhile, points better spent elsewhere” vs “completely and utterly null and void”.
It is “completely and utterly null and void” exactly because of Friendly fire you are doing nothing you get hit you start the rampage they are hitting you, even more if both of you are aiming for the same guy they will brust you added to enemy damage
Yet again if you are using the other builds it is better spending on somewhere else even if you are doing full Mania Tree like i tried that skill it makes you get the skill faster but “completely and utterly null and void” on COOP and sincerely you will aim for the 1/3 because anyway your cd will get reseted and you get the bonus of Release the beast that is damage reduction and increased melee damage…
I… really don’t know how to explain it any further. Not useful is not the same as something being void. You have a real hate boner for fuel the rampage, but you’ve still admitted limited use to it. Imagine… shields having no regen delay at all, and having a skill that reduced shield regen delay. Or a skill that causes extra damage to an enemy on a killing blow that can’t be carried over. Or a skill that increases action speed recovery while the action skill is active and so can’t be recovering.
fuel the rampage is like “beyond meat”. It’s useless to the point of being rage inducing, trying to feel like it’s something while missing the point of what it’s trying to be. Force feedback is more like trying to eat the cold vacuum of space. There is literally nothing at all.
Even if the guardian tree were to not exist, force feedback would already have very limited usefulness. Between “Behind the Iron Curtain”, guardian levels into shield recovery delay, and COM’s, my shield already starts recovery faster than it takes me to kill anything. But I’m not complaining about its lack of usefulness, rather taking issue to it being rendered void. It’s a late tree skill that requires heavy investment into to get, and so should be a “specialist” skill. Something unique to Moze that makes Moze, and that particular tree distinct. Rather, it’s voided by a no opportunity cost passive every class gets for free. and again, by voided, I don’t mean “not useful even in the slightest” I mean it can absolutely, under no circumstances, under no conditions, in no event can have any form of impact, effect, or calculation within, our without the game. At all. Ever. It has less effect than a silent fart in the game (which occurs more than you may think, you just can’t hear it, or smell it, but it still exists, unlike Force Feedback).
Still a pretty high tier skill to make redundant via guardian ranks. Heck, even if it was a tier one skill it should never be made useless by anything. I feels bad to have a skill invalidated by a secondary set of skills. Skil points are supposed to be Uber precious.
Literal same s*** why would i pick skill cd reduction if i already have a instant reset and other builds have no need of this Hellborn the Fire Krieg focus on life regen by burning everything and the bloodlust tree is based on bloodlust there is no use to faster cd to Krieg and much less enabling FRIENDLY FIRE
I am telling you the same s*** you are saying in a different context
A skill that gives you reduced shield recharge delay or one that instantly recharges
A skill that instantly recharges your Action Skill or a skill that reduces Action Skill cooldown
Even if it were remotely useful there are other better choices
Sure, adding some sort of shield health gate to late moze’s shield tree would be an excellent addition. Because thin red line is really… not a smart idea late game. Well, not more than two points anyways. Giving the shield health gate capabilities would synergize perfectly. And considering there’s no way to “instantly” recover shield like there is health, and shield regen is stopped by any sort of DOT, I don’t think it would even need a CD to be a balanced skill. Though I wouldn’t put it at “shield breaks negates any further damage from the hit”. I would just apply health gate to shield. If you’re at 50% or higher shield, you can’t be dropped below 1 shield in a single hit. Same as health gate, but on shield life instead of health …life =p
You’re basically trading health for shield with the build. Trading instant limited health recovery for slower but more reliably available shield recovery. Why not give it a health gate with heavy investment? But maybe tone down desperate measures so that skill wouldn’t be brokenly OP.
Shield reboot is the skill that need reworked!! I cant progress down that tree in guardian ranks anymore because my main is a melee amara and its kinda important that my shield doesnt regen constantly! This was tottally overlooked by thw devs and this skill either needs to be removed from guardian ranks or a complete rework… Or the ability to doable certain guardian rank skills
Yeah… I just realized this. That’s so disappointing.
It really is like two different teams designed these (among other things), never communicating with each other.
narfkeks
(May this forum rest in peace - Davin Dittrich)
#20
It indeed is a redundant skill once you got to Shield Reboot. Maybe, as an additional incentive give Force Feedback a boost to Shield Recharge Rate as that would help the tree just all-around. Something like +33% Shield Recharge Rate would help quite a bit.
Unfortunately Shield Reboot hinders melee builds quite a bit, which is why I would give Amara’s Blitz skill the additional effect that roid bonuses now also apply when the shield is still on. Either that or rework Shield Reboot into a skill that increases your damage for a short period of time after your shield reached max capacity. Nothing great, but at least not distorting any playstyle.