Moze: A Problem

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#1

Moze has great skill trees, a great personality/look, and an awesome action skill IDEA. Between the 2 minute cooldown, the already noted endgame near uselessness, and a “nuke” that’s more like a gentle slap on the wrist; Iron Bear might as well be Claptrap for all the good it does Moze. It isn’t right for Moze to be the only character with an almost entirely useless action skill. But it’s an easy fix! I see two potential ways to fix Iron Bear:

  1. Reduce the cooldown to 60 seconds and give Iron Bear a 50% damage boost. From what I’ve seen, a 50% boost won’t add much more viability to Iron Bear, but you’ll be able to kill at least a few of the weaker enemies every use.

  2. Keep the 2 minute cooldown but have skills like Phalanx Doctrine, Desperate Measures, Experimental Munitions, Armored Infantry, Click Click, The Iron Bank, Scorching RPM’s, Short Fuse, Torgue Cross Promotion, Means of Destruction, and Fire in the Skag Den affect Iron Bear as well. I’m not saying ALL of those skills should affect Iron Bear, but allowing a good chunk of them to would give you so many different options for how to build Iron Bear and add damage to it.

As it is, Moze is fantastic just running as herself, but, personally, I don’t want to play as a character who has a useless action skill. I see no point to it.

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Is something wrong with Moze?
#2

The silver lining of iron bear is that the cooldown is greatly reduced if you get out before burning much fuel. That means builds can use auto bear (with target softener rockets) or full can of whoop ass to give the mech a lot of utility just by hopping in and hopping back out immediately. It’s still a big letdown to anyone who wanted to actually fight things in their giant war machine, but the skill itself will find a use on plenty of good builds.

#3

I agree. I am disappointed in Iron Bear. He is weak, especially the nuke, bearfist and flamethrower.
Thats why i start with amara. I hope they boost the mech later.

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#4

That shouldn’t be the only way IB is useful though. If you give the people a mech, the mech should, you know, BE a mech. The kind of thing an enemy sees and goes, “OH, S***!” Not the kind of thing they see and go, “ok, that thing’s a giant Gundam action figure, but there’s this little person who’s gonna jump out like an underpaid stripper at my mom’s bachelor party and wreck all of our s***.”

#5

For what I’ve seem this far both V-35 and the Vanquisher Rocket Pod do a lot of damage.

Also, dual miniguns with Let Off Some Steam + Specialist Bear seems to be a nice combo as well damage wise.

#6

“COMS” :slight_smile:

#7

COMs will help obviously, but IB should be able to kill a few weaker enemies with its scaled base damage before the addition of skills and gear.

#8

I feel like endgame IB is just there to keep you from insta dead

1 Like
#9

That’s a terrible design though. Endgame IB should be comparable to Endgame Moze in terms of damage, otherwise, what’s the point?

I played Roland in B1, Axton in B2, and Wilhelm in Presequel. Roland’s turret disappeared if you went into FfyL, but other than that, all 3 of those characters had extremely useful action skills that worked as support to distract enemies/ provide buffs to their character and their allies. Deploying them made fights easier so they were useful even in endgame.

As things stand, I don’t see that being the case for IB.

#10

I agree. I hope we get a day 1 tweak to IB standard damage at least maybe like a 30% buff at levelcap

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#11

Isn’t much of this speculation useless, seeing as how we haven’t seen endgame gameplay yet, nor have we’ve seen much in the way of class mods.

I think the complaints about IB, are too short-sighted, focusing too much on how weak he apparently is, in a purely damage mindset. Roland’s turret was dogshit in endgame for damage - it was everything else it offered that made it viable, by keeping you/your teammates alive, refilling ammo, working as a distraction, etc. I see IB working more closely to that mechanic, to distract and/or to soften enemies up so you and/or your teammates can finish them off, for refilling shields, etc.

You also need to consider the different weapons IB can equip and the different effects they can do, that can easily show how he could be more about support/utility vs just a force of raw damage to be reckoned with.

And anybody expecting the nuke to behave like an actual nuke in terms of damage, is being ridiculous…what it lacks in raw damage, it makes up for in radiating enemies, taking DoT and making them easier to kill.

3 Likes
#12

If it’s not working at level 30, it isn’t going to work at level 50. If everything they’ve shown us is too weak as is, wouldn’t it stand to reason that expecting class mods or a higher level version of the character to make this VH equal to the other VH’s is unreasonable? At best class mods and extra skills would allow IB to kill the weakest enemies available.

Everyone who defends IB uses the turrets as examples, so I’ll point out the same thing everyone else points out: the turrets are out simultaneously as your character, so they’re providing support for you to be the main damage dealer. Moze climbs into IB, meaning the only way you’re doing damage during your action skill is IB.

Yes, IB has Auto Bear, but that’s a side skill and not the main way to play Moze. And again, if they’re going to give us a mech to play in, it should be a gamechanger. Jumping into IB should turn the tide of battles, not give you a temporary suit of armor to hide in or to use to spark recovery.

The nuke doesn’t need to wipe out all the enemies, but it should do SOMETHING. It’s a NUKE. They don’t just irradiate, they annihilate. So if they’re giving us a nuke, it should be comparable in damage to 2-3 rocket launchers, particularly if there’s only 1 shot before it needs to be reloaded which had a considerable reload.

Here’s Arreks video with a level 30 double nuke Moze.

3 Likes
#13

Funnily enough, but the Nuke is probably the most efficient weapon Moze has right now. It does medium damage in a wide radius and takes little fuel to do so. Couple this with the “Musical Chairs” augment of the V35 and you have a good combo at your hands.

But I agree that the bear needs a buff - or really good class mods.

What the Bear lacks the most isn’t even damage, it’s survivability and longevity. It shouldn’t be almost one-shotted by a badass enemy and should be out a bit longer in general.

My suggestions:

  • A cap on the damage the Bear can receive from a single attack (like 30% of it’s armor).
  • Base-Armor + 50%
  • Base-Fuel + 20%
#15

You are right, and Moze´s nuke is stll good for clearing weaker enemies

I died a lot of times to Varkids in Sanctuary hole, and I really would have appriciated if I could have just cleared them all with one shot

same with those freaking invis stalkers

#16

There’s no need to get rude. We’re having differences in opinion about a video game.

I focus so much on damage, because IB has only four skills that would count as support: Auto Bear, Some for the Road, Security Bear and Full Can of Whoop Arsee. One of those gives IB an Auto mode for 15 seconds, the next gives you infinite ammo for 5 seconds after you leave IB, after that is a shield for IB that you can hide behind for a couple of shots, and last, you and your allies shields start recharging at a 25% increased rate when you enter IB. If we’re still comparing to the turrets and drones from other games, that’s a pretty weak support setup. The skills are great, but overall not much support in general. IB doesn’t seem designed to be support to me. It’s designed to tank or deal damage, neither of which it seems to do well.

I just rewatched that video because I haven’t honestly watched it since it first came out and, yes, I was wrong, the nuke is more useful then I said. When I first saw that video, I guess I was too focused on the Butcher and my memory of the nuke paled in comparison. My bad. He also was using a double nuke setup which wouldn’t be the best way to test out its effectiveness.

1 Like
#17

Who’s being rude? Because I abbreviated a curse word? I’m just being real - being colloquial. I’m speaking closely to how I would speak in real life. I curse a lot when I speak freely, which these forums don’t allow for. I’ve actually be banned from a few forums, because I would lose the “family friendly filter” and start speaking freely. Couple that with my disdain for authority and censorship, and the more the mods would tell me what I could and couldn’t say, the more I would tell them to ■■■■ off… it’s not a good mix…

Based off of the gameplay I’ve seen of IB, I don’t really have any “red flag” issues that I think need to be addressed, concerning damage or support. I’ll reserve my opinions for when I actually get to play it, and further, when endgame is upon us and people have had a chance to get that high-end gear, that may be game changing.

#18

Guess I’m late to the party… I think Moze doesnt need Iron Bear if built correctly.

Shield of Retribution tree…ridiculous. Probably my favorite of any tree. Literally everything is good.
Bottomless Mag…really good quality of life.
Demo Woman…not my cup of tea but if you get a.+2 class mod to short fuse. Ridiculous

I just dont see what more Iron Bear can bring to the table. I dont think IB is bad…Moze herself is just better.

#19

That wasn’t actually the part I found rude, it was the part where you said you’d dismiss my opinion because I was focusing on damage. But that doesn’t really matter.

Of course, we won’t know just how ANYONE plays until the game comes out… in 13 days. Lol.

If I being honest, I made this post for a friend. He really wants to main Moze but the gameplay so far has made IB seem so weak he doesn’t want to bother. Everything I’ve said has been my opinion, but at the end of the day, not my monkeys, not my circus.

I’m a Zane main.

#20

I’m just being blunt and honest. I’m also the type of person that doesn’t necessarily respect other people’s opinions off of principle, only their right to have them.

I’ll be playing a support Zane with my friend. Moze looks to be the most fun, and recently, I’ve been leaning towards Amara.

#21

Fair enough.