Let's Talk Forebearance

johnrr6 · June 21, 2019, 3:27am

There was a period where folks just ignored Forbearance…speccing Quick Charge instead.

Then…Tiny Tina’s Dragons were released and all of a sudden…Forbearance was back in vogue.

I personally, have always had good luck with speccing it with two points as it will cut the status effect duration by about 20% in general play. Which is usually juuuuust long enough to survive at the old OP8.

But I see VERY few builds using it now with this new DLC…Quick Charge seems back in vogue…

And my question is…Why?

Quick Charge is VERY conditional…useless with a Bee as the Bee’s recharge rate far exceeds Quick Charge’s rebuilds. And I hear that status effects at OP 10 are VERY deadly.

Can you folks enlighten me??

TempNight · June 21, 2019, 4:50am

I think it just a matter of preference and circumstances. You have very little chance to activate kill skills with the dragons so passive skills > kill skills. But most of the time I like kill skills because they have greater bonuses. Forbearance reduces the duration of status effect letting you survive against DOTS but you can also say that Quick Charge lets you regen shields through DOTS which also lets you survive against them. I actually don’t like the Bee in the new dlc. It seems like the mobs are balanced around the poison status effect making them bullet sponges but at the same time it’s like I’m running around the Beatdown and I’m going down a lot when I’m wearing Bee.

johnrr6 · June 21, 2019, 1:59pm

This has always been my logic:

Quick Charge will regen at max 15% at 5/5 and will do that over 3 seconds. 15% on a low cap Bee is…bad…and you still don’t get the advantage of additional amp damage which is the raison detre’ for the Bee in the first place.

The Bee’s short recharge is never activated as you are still being hit by DOT. And when it finally activates the recharge is ridiculously fast which negates any Quick Charge advantage.

Plus Quick Charge ONLY activates on a kill. HIGHLY conditional.

My take is Quick Charge is great for a BIG Shield with slower recharge like a Turtle or Blockade…but a low cap, paper thin Bee with a ridiculous recharge rate renders the skill pretty useless…

Forbearance just…works…all the time.

I used to run a Blockade at OP8 on Axton and a Quick Charge, Forbearance combo was quite good defensively.

Piemanlee · June 21, 2019, 3:14pm

I’ve always based it off of recharge rate/delay.

I’d never use QC with the bee, but with something like a turtle shield I’d use it.

Low recharge delay blockade I’ve always speced forbearance

johnrr6 · June 25, 2019, 3:10am

Would depend on the cap size and how fast the shield recharges more than the delay rate but your right. It’s a factor…also…Will there even be enemies around that you can kill to proc the skill?

My rule of thumb is basically 3 seconds. If a shield can recharge fully in less than 3 seconds after you have considered The boost from Preparation…

There is probably no reason to spec much into Quick Charge.

TempNight · June 25, 2019, 7:40am

You’re kinda contradicting yourself.

The wiki lists the different status effects and duration:
Fire - 5s
Shock - 2s
Corrosive - 8s
Damage ticks every 0.33s.

At 5/5 Forbearance has -40% status duration:
Fire - 5/1.4 = 3.57s - 10 ticks
Shock - 2/1.4 = 1.42s - 4 ticks
Corrosive - 8/1.4 = 5.71s - 17 ticks

At 10/5 Forbearance has -80% status duration:
Fire - 5/1.8 = 2.77s - 8 ticks
Shock - 2/1.8 = 1.11s - 3 ticks
Corrosive - 8/1.8 = 4.44s - 13 ticks

At 11/5 Forbearance has -88% status duration:
Fire - 5/1.88 = 2.65s - 7 ticks
Shock - 2/1.88 = 1.06s - 3 ticks
Corrosive - 8/1.88 = 4.25s - 12 tics

Probably messed up something so correct me if I’m wrong.

Quick Charge has a duration of 3s or 9 ticks. Notice that only corrosive DOTs can be lessened by 3s or more. Also, take into account the penalties of Fire/Corrosive vs Shields. So Quick Charge’s reliability depends on the type of shield and whether you can activate or not but I can conclude that you cannot write off Quick Charge that easily and it definitely has some uses.

EDIT: Added damage ticks/effective duration

johnrr6 · June 25, 2019, 2:39pm

@TempNight Wow, really excellent analysis! Made me think.

Are we sure on those effect times? Wiki is so often just flat wrong. And it just FEELS longer while you are being pummeled by it lol.

But let’s assume it is…

I use a 3 second general rule because:

I take into account the fact that quick charge is ONLY activated on Kill and it deploys it’s effect over 3 Seconds so really max benefit is 15% after the 3 seconds if at 5/5…pretty small but something.

I think it’s a real value is that a kill immediately overrides the delay and at least for three seconds any additional damage doesn’t restart the delay timer. It doesn’t negate the damage coming in but at least the shield is offsetting up to that 15%

I use 3 seconds not because of status effect but because of the 3 seconds it takes to fully deploy Quick Charge.

If the Shield I am using can normally recharge faster than QC’s 3 second deployment then all I am really getting is a very small safety valve from quick charge that may not even be fully in place by the time the shield would recharge.

An 11/5 Quick charge on a large capacity pangolin shield with a ton of mobs around to constantly kill and proc the skill might be invaluable. But normally…at least for me…I only spec it with a couple of points in order to get the delay override and whatever small amount as a very small safety valve. Forbearance gets more points usually.

I think the biggest problem with quick charge is that we all assume we are getting the skill all the time which simply isn’t the case.It only procs on a kill. And if you are in an area with very few mobs or a single boss, it is useless.

I LOVE discussions like this and absolutely don’t mind being proven totally wrong so fire away if I am missing something.

paulothead · June 25, 2019, 3:21pm

I like your rationale, and it seems sound to me. I like Quick Charge when I’m rolling with a Big Boom Blaster in conjunction with Fastballs and Forebearance when I have a purple Tediore on, so I think we’re on the same page. The only thing I should mention is that I only keep those purple Tediore shields when they have an elemental resistance (preferably shock) built in (I’m talking max level here, leveling is whatever works best.). That would make Forebearance apply to 2 elements more than the third, but seeing as they’re the longest lasting I consider that a good move. I guess for me it’s basically down to grenade choice. If I’m Fastballin’ and shot callin’ I go Quick Charge, and if I’m using Magic Missiles Forebearance all the way. But I don’t respec often, if at all, so I typically end up with both to some degree.

TempNight · June 25, 2019, 3:57pm

I don’t know myself actually! That’s why I wrote down the source so anyone can check it. That said, I feel they’re about right for the sake of argument.

You’re certainly right about this. Maya and Gaige have similar skills and I use all of them to fight DOTs.

Axton has already 2 awesome shield skills Willing + Pressure which will net you a total of -120%* shield delay. So for example a 3s delay shield will become 1.36s. So like you said, QC is a small safety valve but 5% shields/sec might mean the difference between activating your other shield skills and being downed.

*both at 5/5 and depends on your health

It’s reverse for me. Forbearance gives the most value at the first few points while QC scales linearly so it’s better value at higher points. So I spec a couple at Forbearance and 3-5 points at QC.