Is Maya too weak without the update?

Borderlands 2 Maya the Siren
#1

I assume this is a good a place as any to put this. Sorry if it doesn’t really fit the place. Anyways, I operate on very limited data. As a result, a 10.5GB patch is too much for me to download, so I have to deal with the plethora of annoying bugs and such that come with using an unupdated game.

I’ve read that Maya has some serious issues regarding Helios, Backdraft (not that I use this one), Cloud Kill and Blight Phoenix. How serious are they through NVHM and TVHM? I’m not really good enough for UVHM so far and farming the gear would take a while anyways, from my understanding.

It may be far from optimal, but my typical build is:

5/5 Foresight
5/5 Helios
4/5 Chain Reaction
1/1 Cloud Kill
5/5 Reaper
5/5 Blight Phoenix
1/1 Ruin
Put in last point in Chain Reaction

Would something like this suffer outside of UVHM?

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#2

These skills got a serious buff in that patch. Especially Cloud Kill, which went from being the worst skill in BL 2 to being one of the best. Or at least most powerful.

Since you don’t have that patch, Cloud Kill is a waste of points. Backdraft is a skill that I hardly ever used, but if memory serves me, there was a good reason for that. It was simply too weak. Even in NVHM and TVHM. Plus the fact that there were better skills to pick instead. Helios and Blight Phoenix will work fairly well in both these modes. They’re not super strong, but will help out a bit.

Chain Reaction, on the other hand, is one of maya’s best skills, and should always be 5/5. Converge will make it shine even more.

So, to answer your question… No, Maya is not too weak without the patch.

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#3

Here’s my suggested build:
http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#000000000000000000000555410501
I’ve never been a fan of Blight Phoenix; personally, I put the points in Immolate- the extra damage vs flesh enemies (as most of the game’s enemies are, minus the loaders) would make it easier to get out of FFL situations. As far as the patch might I ask what system you’re playing on? If an external HD is feasible it might be something to consider…

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#4

Even though the Cataclysm tree is really good, it may also cause you some unnecessary deaths. It’s very tempting to choose this path, coz the skills in there are damn sexy. But going down this tree right from the start forces you to give up the survival skills in the other trees. So let me suggest a different approach.

When I start a new siren, which i do quite often, I put the first two points in Sweet Release. After that, I get busy in the Motion tree. 5/5 in Ward, 5/5 in Suspension and finally one point in Converge. Now you’re able to stay alive, and keep the enemies at bay.

If you feel that your damage output is a bit too weak, you should pick up a Cat COM. Pretty much any Cat COM will give your SMG damage a healthy boost. A good white rarity Cat COM at around level 11 will boost it by ~80 %, and you may not feel the need to upgrade it throughout the whole game. There are stronger ones, ofc, but it’s a really good COM to get that early. The skill boosts on Cat COM’s in general are nice, but it’s the stat boost that make them so great.

At this point, you can either choose to go for the Cataclysm tree, or continue down the Harmony tree. It’s up to you.

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#5

I’ll echo @Ronnie_Rayburn’s sentiment about not focussing on the right-hand tree. I currently have a Maya I just finished running through NVHM and TVHM putting most of the points in there (I have the 2015 update, so I wanted to see how it went), but I still have some points in the other trees (primarily middle).

My first Maya actually ran through NVHM and TVHM with mostly left and centre and a few bits of right, and she never really felt weak. Honestly, although there are some issues with some of her unpatched skills, she’s still a highly viable character.

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#6

Fun Fact, Cloud Kill got 39 times stronger after the patch.

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#7

And despite that, many of us took maya all the way to OP 8 without it. Maya has definetly become stronger after the patch, but she certainly wasn’t a pushover before it either. I think you’ll do just fine, @Sylvanei.

About that… None of us were any good in UVHM the first time. :rofl: But we got better. So will you! Don’t be afraid to try it on, and if you run into trouble, all you need to do is ask us here. We’re happy to help you out.

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#8

Maybe a bit OT; people complain about UVHM being almost impossible, that the enemy health regen is unbalanced, that you can’t do ANYTHING without slag and then that slag is also unbalanced, blah blah blah…I see that and I wonder if some of them really don’t have a good understanding of how their character works 'cause they had someone power-lvl them to 72 or higher in an afternoon. I firmly believe that whatever skills I have with Maya came in large part due to running her thru N/T/both UVHM’s and eventually the Peak, refining her build, and learning how she actually works.

Back on topic; Ronnie’s right…no one’s good at UVHM the first time they see it, especially since the game’s scaling in late TVHM/early UVHM is in fact a bit wobbly. Get yourself into the 60’s and life will get easier, I’ll bet a cookie on it.

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#9

What. you give is fine, as Ronnie said, without that last patch, put 5/5 in Chain Reaction and I’d take Immolate over Blight Phoenix, but otherwise you’re fine. You don’t need the buffed Cloud Kill and the other skills are still great. Those skills that got buffed were never an essential part of her kit so she’s fine with or without them. It is nice having the buffed Cloud Kill, but it’s not a game changer.

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#10

Greatly appreciate the help guys. I’ll take that build and use it. I’ve never been a fan of Blight Phoenix either, but I liked the damage post-buff. I remember reading somewhere that Immolate amplifies all elemental damage or something, and not just fire damage. Is that true? Seems like it’d be even more worth picking up.

Oh, and a couple of questions. Might be better put somewhere else. Let me know if it is, and apologies in advance.

First one being I’ve noticed that people say that UVHM is a really big challenge (especially places like the Pig Motel). How should I approach UVHM as Maya? People have said to identify strengths and weaknesses, but I’ve never been great at that. The only one I’ve been able to find is that she’s effectively the worst at soloing the invincibles. I’ve run two Mayas through NVHM and TVHM and she seems to have everything. A good amount of survivability, area damage and focused damage.

Second one being is that there’s a lot of unique and orange gear. Is there anything in particular I’d want to use for Maya that she does well with? I can’t seem to find any kind of analysis of unique gear anywhere, so apologies if I missed something like that.

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#11

Here’s something that breaks down Immolate for you.

Try this link for more knowledge about maya. Some of the links in it are currently not working, but the ones about her gear works fine.

Check out the Top Gear section!

The first time you play it will be a wake up call. It’s a big step from TVHM, but nothing that can’t be overcome. Slagging becomes very important in UVHM, and since you’re on Maya, you have Ruin. Free slag, without switching guns. If you also have Converge, you’ll drag all the enemies together, and get them all slagged in one go. Nice, huh! :wink:

Converge is a fantastic skill to have because of the crowd control it gives you. It will take a lot of the heat off your back, and it gives you a window of opportunity to blast all the enemies to smithereens. It also has great synergy with Chain Reaction. Don’t leave home without it!

Three Horns Valley (Happy Pig Motel) can be challenging if you’re on foot. Especially if you’re ambushed by four Rabid skags at the same time. :scream: That’s a tough one for anyone! So… Use a car! I use the one with the launcher, and then I just reverse and blast them. If they manage to pop my car, I have usually widdled them down enough to dispose of them without any major issues.

Maya is actually pretty good with just about any gun, but she’s really strong with SMG’s and Snipers. My advice is that you use whatever type of guns you use in TVHM, and that you feel comfortable with. The thing th at can turn UVHM into a nightmare is if you’ve leveled up to around level 55 in TVHM, and jump into UVHM. The enemies will then be at level 55, but your gear will be at level 50. Watch out for that!

A couple of guns that can be accessed early, and that will make things a lot easier are the Hornet, Unkempt Harold and the Good Touch. Farm Knuckledragger for a Hornet, and you’ll have a corrosive gun that will take you a long way. Savage Lee in Three Horns Divide can drop the UH, and as soon as you get to Sanctuary, you can tip Moxxi to get the Good Touch. Those three guns can take care of anything the game throws at you, and the best thing is… When they start feeling weak, you can farm/tip for them again.

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#12

There’s the now iconic 100+ ways to survive at UVHM post on the forums if you do a search for that…

To me, the way to start playing Maya at UVHM is to be cautious and stay out of the thick of the fight ideally with your back to a clear exit or a wall or something so you don’t get surrounded… Your key skills are Ruin and Converge (plus Res if you are playing co-op). Ruin will instaslag targets and Converge will pull nearby enemies in and likely slag them too. Converge sets up Chain Reaction with the right weapons (something with a lot of pellets, like a Conference Call, there’s loads of other options in the posts Ronnie gives)… You’re going to use this to keep enemies off of you and also to slag everything. If you’re having trouble keeping enemies off of you, get a singularity grenade, the quasar is the best for this, but a slag singularity with no fuse delay will be just as good. If you are having trouble slagging things, get a slag grenade (magic missiles are my favourite). Basically, you are going to loop between phaselocking, staying safe until phaselock recharges, then phaselocking again. With a Leg Siren and a BOTA or a proficiency relic if you don’t have a BOTA, you won’t be waiting very long for your next Phaselock. This is why you are at midrange, you can back up and/or get around a corner if you need to stay safe. Her strengths are the ridiculous crowd control, so stay back and control that crowd. If you have a big target you can’t phaselock, slag everything and then phaselock a small enemy near it, then hit the big target with the Wreck bonus you have from phaselocking, Wreck applies during phaselock on all targets, not just the bubbled one.

I prefer Immolate over Blight Phoenix because I don’t think BP does much of anything and therefore I’d rather have the damage increase in FFYL because everyone goes down at some point (or multiple, multiple points) in UVHM.

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#13
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#14

There isn’t much to be said that hasn’t been said by better folk than me, but I feel that three words sum it up nicely: Knowledge is power. If I had to pick a few other words, they would be: Patience and Tenacity are THE virtues of UVHM. Pay attention to the character specific “50 ways to keep (insert character name here) alive in UVHM” threads and you’ll be golden. If a casual gamer like me can stay alive with the advice of the sages here on the forums, anyone can. To quote our favorite friendly neighborhood arms dealer, “Good Luck!” :grin:

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#15

Hey, another thing I wanted to ask. I looked at the thread from the old forums about the Witch class mod being broken. Is that still a thing? In that it doesn’t increase corrosive damage or corrosive DoT damage? You can’t go past the first page on those forums (to my knowledge), but some of the posters said that the Witch com doesn’t work for e-tech guns?

I also read that it doesn’t work with Cloud Kill. Is that also true still, or?

#16

Assuming that this info is still good (I think that was done post-patch, but I’m not positive), you’re pretty much correct.

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#17

The original post was kept updated to at least Dec. 2017 which is well after the patch date so yes, it’s good.

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