Axton, Maya, Gaige, or other for solo UCP?

Borderlands 2 BL2 General Discussion
#1

I’ve been messing around a little with the UCP and I have to say it’s fun. It’s sparking my interest in the game again so it’s nice to pull an old friend off the shelves and give it new life.

Problem is, there’s so many changes that I don’t even know where to start. The last time I played OP wasn’t even a thing, so not only am I out of the loop on strategy but I’m also out of the loop with new strategy involving the UCP.

Axton and Maya were always my favorites (because I hate weapon swapping for slag and they can slag with powers), but now there’s so many more viable options with the other characters…apparently even a shock Gaige (which was something I had wanted but the base game never managed to pull it off well). Also saw a really interesting Axton that uses Rough Rider + Pointman, apparently it’s super tanky. The big thing that always turned me away from wanting to continue the game was how stupidly squishy OP levels looked. Health gate abuse and stuff like that felt like too much cheese, not enough actual gameplay.

I’m working on two characters right now, one for solo, one for duo with my wife. Just not sure who I want to play. I suppose that’s a good thing, one super obvious choice is never fun, but some ideas would be great since I’m kind of flying blind right now. Who would you say is the best soloer and the best duoer? Actually, I already know Maya is the best duoer, but if she also happens to be the best soloer…than a new duo char will be needed. Obviously any character can make it to the end with enough patience but some chars have it easier than others, some are less gear reliant, some are less (ugh) slag weapon reliant, etc. Have I mentioned I hate slag weapons -_-;; swap swap swap swap (although the buffed chulainn may be an exception, I always loved shock weapons and this also slags :smiley: ) . At least Magic Missile is a thing which will save me 99% of that stupid weapon swapping nonsense :stuck_out_tongue:

It should be noted I’m trying to avoid some of the stupidly OP stuff…Beehawk, Shamfleeting, grognozzle, sal in general…stuff like that. If I need to use it to solo a raid, so be it, but wandering around the world, boss hunting, stuff like that…I would really like to avoid the things that turn the game into a sleeper.

The biggest thing I want out of my character is being tanky without reliance on the grog of silliness. I really hate dying, it makes me feel like I’ve somehow built my character wrong (despite the fact that gear and occasional circumstance can kill, especially BA fire threshers…). I saw a video of the RR axton I mentioned above and they seem surprisingly tanky in OP8. I haven’t found any good video’s of maya or gaige using the UCP (although I did find an interesting looking guide about a binder maya, but no life tap? Still looked interesting, like a pinball machine) so I’m not sure what else I have to work with. Krieg was also always a popular one for tanking damage but he bores me to tears until 32+ so not sure I have the willpower to try him again. I have zero interest in playing zero or sal, but anything else is on the table for suggestions.

Sorry for the long post :clock1030: Thanks for any ideas.

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#2

The thing with Maya is you always have that hard CC to freeze targets while debuffing everything, plus you have sweet release so you don’t need a Moxxi weapon . If you were out of practice, that would be my recommendation given your parameters…

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#3

I know Axton got some really good buffs from the ucp, but I’m on console so i don’t have any experience

#4

  • There’s a lot of variety in the OP levels between 0 and 8. 8 can be brutal, where 0 really isn’t bad. I park at 3. I bring in higher-level shields, so they can actually tank the way I think they should (stronger than paper, but not Kevlar either; spike shields hurt but don’t kill unless I really am really stacking for that sort of damage, nova shields hurt enemies pretty bad (and can kill if the enemy is weak and debuffed, etc.) I also bring in higher-level guns if they have weakened due to the damage scaling at these levels. They don’t one-shot things, but they work as well as their OP3 peers. Use this system to your advantage.

  • If you get yourself parked at OP3 with a gear set to match (for example), and you still find it too stiff, just select OP2, and all your gear will be about one level higher than everyone. Still too stiff? Go one lower. If a full three levels isn’t enough, re-farm at a higher level so the difference between what you’re packing and the enemy levels provides the difficulty you want (and you can always change it on the fly too). Note that the higher you go to set your gear level, the less “headroom” you have for shield/gear buffs; you’ll want to find your own happy medium.

  • I play with BAR on. It’s only 20% (and I have a ton of coins I haven’t redeemed). 20%, for me, takes the edge off without nerfing the game too much. Your mileage may vary, but don’t hesitate to use it to soften the game up as you like. Because it’s not really a controlled variable, I get why people disable it for time trials and competitions, but for solo play, do your thing.

  • If you get familiar with the UCP, my favorite thing is making custom COMs. Again, they’re not game-breaking ones, but ones that fit a particular playstyle that I like… usually just swapping a skill or two. The UCP has some pretty arcane stuff, but customizing COMs isn’t too hard.

  • I’d say the best co-op partner is Maya because Res (her other team skills are just gravy, and are still more than the other characters have anyway). For solo, it’s really up to you.

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#5

Thanks for the replies. I’ve been messing around with Axton a little but, still really unsure what to do though. I at least have some potential builds to aim for though after digging around some more, but…really not sure who I want to sink the time in to. Constantly trying out characters doesn’t really get me anywhere, and they all seem fun so far…could still use some advice honestly. This is what I have so far though:

Axton: http://bl2skills.com/patch/commando.html#55005150515005013000050505005051 I’m aiming to get the Rough Rider in the long run, seems like it would make him pretty darn tanky with the health skills and a legendary pointman mod. Weapons seem pretty open, the build focuses on defense over offense so I could use whatever I wanted, right? Of course he will definitely kill slower…and I have no idea how he raids now. Is this a viable raid setup or does he still rely on chucking?

Maya: http://bl2skills.com/patch/siren.html#555401505041050100000554510501 I have no idea if this is the best way to go for soloing or not. It’s the legendary binder setup I’ve seen mentioned around. I never really got into Maya the last time I played so I’m not sure exactly how to build her for soloing. I never liked the idea that her phaselock didn’t work on so many enemies that were already hard enough to kill (hello you stupid constructors). But I’ve seen people enjoy Maya, so…I added her? I like her as a character, no idea how to solo with her though. I really wanted to get life tap but binder has no room for it…I like defensive characters, but binder seemed to be the most recommended? No idea. Maybe a different build? Still no idea :smiley:

Gaige: http://bl2skills.com/patch/mechromancer.html#500140150541550005150521410150100000 Should look familiar, it’s shock and aaa build. Gaige is my favorite character (not to play, but as an actual character) and I always wanted to play a shock gaige, but pre-UCP it was pretty bad. I’ve seen that she’s been vastly improved with the UCP (possibly the most improved?) but I still have no idea how she fares against the other two. I like the idea that I can focus on a single element for the most part. I know BSS is amazing but does it make her as tanky as the other two? Not sure. Her build seems to require grog…ick.

Sal, Krieg, Zero…no real interest in them honestly. I know Sal is basically the “best” but he bores me to tears, so he can go sit in the corner.

As far as raiding goes, can any of the three I’m looking at raid without respeccing and super specializing? I know they can all do the raids, but some are way harder than others, and some of them rely on cheese.

If it’s not obvious, I’m very indecisive T-T; and it makes me a little bit nuts. The biggest thing for me is not being reliant on a grog nozzle, constant weapon swapping annoys me so if I have to keep going to grog every 5 seconds because I’m made of paper…I will not play that character very long. At all. It was the one thing I did like about Sal, basically immortal since you don’t have to swap more or less ever (grog + harold) but like I said, he bored me. His action skill was just hold a second gun…meh. Plus, if you stop firing for a second, he died anyway. He was still made of paper, just really pretty paper :stuck_out_tongue:

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#6

If you are into raiding, unfortunately the best in terms of speed killing raid bosses is sal, zero and krieg. But axton, gaige and maya can hold their on.

Also, your maya build is good already but if you feel you need more healing spec out of subsequence, a few points in KR and accelerate and try to get elated, sustenance all the way down to life tap.

#7

In terms of raiding, raiding usually involve different builds and heavy reliance on cheese. If you go check out Demonite’s channel on youtube, he shows some different setups for raiding with Axton who can generate a lot of damage off of his grenade skills and Tediore reloads.

In terms of your Maya build, you have the base of a subsequence build and so this will work. I prefer a slightly different variant because I don’t rate Kinetic Reflection (without a Trickster build) and Accelerate works against many of the weapons I like to use with Maya. The damage boost of Accelerate isn’t much either and isn’t noticeable whether you have it on or not in my opinion. That said, for bee hawking raid bosses, I’m definitely using Accelerate. I’m on also on console and so don’t know if the UCP changed things around. I know they buffed Mind’s Eye for example.

Here’s my usual subsequence build, I sometimes go 4/5 in Inertia and put a point in Sustenance for passive healing as I run between mobbing areas.

http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#505001555041054100000554510501

Here’s my friend Slif One’s, where he does use accelerate, otherwise it’s the same basically

http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#555001545041050100000554510501

You can see that the base of all 3 builds is the same and then it’s some personal preference as to where to put the remaining points.

Now we compare that to Legendary Siren builds like Derch’s Twisted Pimp and we see that by ditching Quicken and Subsequence, we can get Life Tap and then you might as well put down one more point to get Scorn. There’s two or three points that are arbitrary in Harmony here, so if you feel like you will actually use Restoration, a point there is enough to heal at OP8. I also figured your UCP buffed Mind’s eye would be worth another point or two, but again, not necessary.

http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#415001400025054105310554510501

The advantages of the Leg Siren build involve a bit more consistency in the playtsyle (you know when your Phaselock is going on and off) and you have Life Tap for great surviveability. The passive boosts from the Leg Siren make up for not having Quicken and boosted Wreck and Reaper. The advantages of the Leg Binder build include having ridiculous amounts of fun wrecking mobbing areas as your bubble moves target to target crushing everything and spreading slag all over the place. It’s Maya best team COM unless you are playing with a Krieg or a Sal who doesn’t need cooldown reduction (I know in many Axton and Gaige setups cool down reduction isn’t that important either, but it still helps). Ripping rooms apart with subsequence is one of my favourite things to do in BL2. You still have great survivability because Sweet Release procs on all phase lock kills, though it won’t outheal DOTS like Life Tap will. The chaotic nature of the the subsequence build fits my playstyle well, but I can see how more precise players like the Leg Siren better.

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#8

remember last time we ran the peak, 4 maya’s yet running 4 different builds, 1 thoughtlock, 1 subsequence, 1 Legendary Siren and 1 Trickster Build, but all wearing a Binder coms.

Haven’t watched it, have you uploaded it?

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#9

That is a lot to consider, thank you. I suppose, assuming I pick Maya…that basically means there are two primary ways to go? Either Ruin/Scorn or Ruin/Thoughtlock? Honestly if I go so far down into Motion as to get 5/5 Subsequence I may as well use the single extra point for Thoughtlock at that point.

The question is, which is better? I’m going to guess that this is a case of preference, one gives tons of healing, one gives tons of crown control…so better for X situations. Obviously Kinetic is great on bullet maps, but that’s yet another version (now going trickster instead of binder or siren) that could also be either thoughtlock or scorn…

Maya almost has too many options =/ it seems like it would be very easy to get paralyzed by indecision (especially since I have enough issues with picking what I want to do as is…). At least with Gaige/Axton the builds I want are basically already there, RR Tank and Shock, and they don’t really change too much as a general rule. Pointman and Catalyst, all the time. Still, tempted to try out Maya…I really never liked her since her skill didn’t work against so many enemies, but I also haven’t played her in years, so who knows? I don’t even know how to level her it’s been so long, other than get 1 point in sweet release, get cloud kill…then ?

I tend to dislike swapping builds/gear all the time, just give me X and let me play. Obviously this doesn’t always work in borderlands…at least in 2. Worked swimmingly as a general rule in the first game.

#10

The game is too interesting and nuanced to only play it one way. That said, those two setups I gave are the most common. The reason for not putting the extra point in Thoughtlock is that overall, thoughtlock is not a popular option for Maya because a lot of the time it’s not worth the thought lock, you’re better off just crushing the target and going to the next so why take the longer cool down and the removal of the bubbled enemies for your teammates (if playing co-op)? I’m not sure if CR procs off of Thoughtlock either. I started running a thought lock build awhile back, just to do something new and was surprised how much I liked it (it’s especially good at keeping aggro off you on the peak), but if I had to pick one Maya setup, it’d be that normal subsequence build.

My friend @Ginger_greninja ran a Maya build that didn’t use subsequence or Scorn, he decided he didn’t really need Scorn and like having the extra points in Motion. Given her other slag options and a gun like the slag pimp, Scorn isn’t as critical (though it’s nice you can use it in FFYL).

If you didn’t like switching builds around, the build you have for subsequence will work fine, as will the variants I showed. Similarly the Leg Siren setup or slight variants of it will work fine for pretty much everything in the game. For raid bosses, a bee hawking setup around the Leg Cat is often preferable and I don’t find subsequence as good on the peak (without Thoughtlock) but I’ve done fine with it there.

Maya is actually one of the easiest to build because the points in Cataclysm are pretty much set for her standard builds. That’s 26 points pretty uniformly spread and then you need to get Converge (the points above it can go into any of the four skills) and Wreck/Res so that determines point allocation there. From there, pretty much any combo will work of the remaining points, so it’s more a matter of do you want to max out a build based around the bouncing bubble in case the Leg Binder or a build taking advantage of the awesome passive boosts of the Leg Siren and Life Tap to be phase locking everything all the time and having that useful healing though damage in heavy firefights.

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#11

Well, I’ve already gotten axton and gaige to 25 (so…so tired of doing the same story…), can’t hurt to try maya and see if she’s more fun. Maybe I’ll torture myself a little less with this one >.>;; or not.

#12

It most certainly can work in BL2… it’s a little meta game I play solo: once I’ve let the dice pick a character/allegiance and map, and I figure out what I’ll be doing (side mission, map challenges, map purge, King of the Hill, Infiltration, whatever), I figure out what loadout I’ll use.

The gear is not only manufacturer locked (COMs, relics, and Anshin/Pangolin excluded), but the specific instances of each weapon are locked; Gaige only gets one Pimpernel, Maya only has one Omen, Zer0 has only one Lyuda, etc.; if their elements don’t fit the bill, too bad. Depending on the manufacturer, they have anywhere from maybe 30 to 50 pieces of gear to choose from. They may not change their builds either.

Within these constraints, I figure out which gear to equip based around which combat strategy I want to use for the mission. Once I’ve equipped this gear, I have to try to make it work. Sometimes I play it safe and play with the best gear; sometimes I take a risk and play with weaker gear. The only way it doesn’t work is when I’ve chosen poorly and find myself in a pickle… forgot that there might be UBA Pyre threshers on a map and am only packing fire weapons, step into Opportunity with corrosive only gear to watch the local Engineers shrug it off with their shields, hanging out in Aegris with all shock gear and RNGesus keeps throwing shock Witch Doctors, that sort of thing. I’m usually pretty good at preparing for this, but sometimes I find myself in a pickle… wouldn’t be a challenge otherwise.

If you mean that you want a single character, build, and loadout that will work for all circumstances (not just per mission), you should be able to do this in Normal and True modes with almost anything? UVHM will limit these options, but Deputy Sal, for example, could pull it off I’m sure.

I think you’re in for a treat. Maya’s combat style isn’t necessarily different from other characters’, but her skills for survival and enemy management are something else.

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#13

So far she is fun (a whole level 16), although she does play more or less the same as any other character at low level, as you said and as was expected. Kinda like cloudkill :stuck_out_tongue: I’m not sure how people use Phaselocking for sniping. Seems like most of the time the enemy is obscured so you can’t really get a good shot.

The hardest part is still going to be deciding between Ruin/Scorn Siren or Ruin/Bouncy Binder. I can’t stand not having a plan to build towards, even if it’s obviously far out on the horizon. One of the reasons I was comfortable with axton and gaige was I knew exactly what I was building towards (although I have no idea how well either of the two builds do compared to, say…maya).

Not sure where to go next though…straight for ruin? get converge? ruin and converge are taken no matter what build so may as well head for them…

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#14

Because you can always respec, I never aim for a build, I just go with what I want to do at that time and then I respec when I have more points or want to try something else.

Basically, Maya’s three key skills (if co-op, which you said you would do) are Converge, Res, and Ruin, so your early game is about getting those in some order. Cloud kill is ridiculously strong early game to the point where you are barely playing the game at times if you have a slag gun. It’s properly balanced as levels increase. Therefore, if you wanted to cruise, Cloud Kill would be your first stop, and then you’d just continue on to Ruin. However, I don’t think Ruin is that important early game as slag doesn’t become critical until later so I’d rather take Converge after Cloud Kill or just take Converge first anyway. If you’re already playing co-op, the other players are looking forward to you having Res, plus you get Sweet Release and Wreck with that. So in summary, in some order I would build down to Converge, Res, and Cloud Kill, then extend down to Ruin.

I’m posting a lot on Maya as that’s the character I have the highest level of knowledge with. There’s plenty of folks on this board who can give you similar or greater levels of detail on Axton and Gaige builds, I’m just not one of them.

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#15

Phaselock, for me, holds them still so I can get a clean gander at their crit spot. I already know where it is, so once you’re familiar with how Phaselock folds up an enemy, you can start positioning yourself for a shot as you grab them. When I have a lot of PhysX particles on screen, I do sometimes have to give it a moment to clear. Fun fact: while Converge only fires a single pull on enemies, it’s constantly pulling all PhysX particles for the duration. +11 points in Sustenance will allow Phaselock to pull up a lot of debris.

Alternately: Phaselock an enemy, but focus on one of the enemies hit by Converge, who will be stunned, providing a clear shot.

Thoughtlock only works solo for me; if there is a crowd, they’ll go after each other, so they’re still moving chaotically and are difficult to pop in the head. A single enemy will simply de-aggro, and you can similarly get yourself into a position where you can nail their crit spot.

This - give that skill a spin and if you don’t like it, spec out of it.

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