Thoughts about the Cloud Kill buff

Borderlands 2 Maya the Siren
#1

After two years away from Borderlands 2, I started a new playthough from lv 1. I’m really impressed with the Cloud Kill buff, it’s killing everything, not only loaders. I’m currently level 69 UVHM and that thing keep stealing weapon kills from badass rank. Not that I am unhappy about it, but after years we Maya players complained about elemental dot being weak past level 40 and that directly affecting Maya because of her Cataclysm tree, it’s very satisfying seeing it work now. The build I use for mobbing is strong as ever, as it keeps bringing enemies to the cloud and slagging them.

I hope BL3 will receive balance patches more often. Whatever Gearbox Software did wrong that it took so long to patch Maya as well as other characters, they most likely learned the lesson.

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#2

CK is in a so much better place than before! For me, if I’m being wholly honest, I think it’s a bit overpowered, especially at lower stages of the game, and for that reason I often don’t spec it. Kind of depends what I’m doing at endgame - if I’m using top gear it’s good, but if I’m doing silly things it tends to melt stuff a bit too quickly when I’m waiting for my delicious Bandit SMG to do its own work. That said, it really is so much better post-patch, and Maya definitely needs a DPS source without Phaselock, so I’m with you!

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#3

Yes, but it does put Maya on more equal footing with Lilith. And since Maya et al are supposed to be stronger Vault Hunters than Lilith et al…

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#4

I liked it before, but acknowledge that it was unusually weak for what I expected a skill at that level on a tree to be. I think it’s a bit overpowered now, but that’s fine: many other people like it, and I just don’t spec it on one of my Sirens.

…just had a thought: we should be able to fine-tune it to the damage level we prefer with the UCP.

Rhetorical question: what is everyone’s expectation for what Cloud Kill should be? Specifically, how much damage should it do per application? One-hit kills on Saturn? Half an EXP Loader’s health? Kill a PWR Loader walking through it before it gets past? Slag-less kills in UVHM?

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#5

I don’t think it should do slag-less kills. Slagged chumps should certainly die. Super Badass and Ultimate Super Badass types should require a combination approach though. Badass types can mostly die (!)

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#6

You didn’t find it completely unusable before? Impressive!

I don’t think it should be responsible for many kills, at least at later stages. It needs to be greater than enemy health regeneration though. Myself, I’d settle for a bit less power (maybe 2/3rds of its current state) and a short cooldown.

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#7

I love it. It’s still good even at OP8 and I’d much rather have it be overpowered than useless.

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#8

CK is a game-changer skill in the Cataclysm tree, just like Res and Converge are for the other skill trees. It IS supposed to be strong.

#9

Definitely, I think a minor game changer should make an interesting shift in how the battlefield works, but Res and Converge don’t make weapon choice irrelevant, which CK basically does in normal mode. I think it needs to be strong and Maya needs DPS but it is often OP in my gameplay, especially at lower levels. My Bandit Siren hangs out at OP3 and doesn’t use it.

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#10

Playing through the game if you have a slag weapon and ck you’re good to go.

It’s a bit too strong and imo could be dialed back 50% and still be amazing.

I like it with Jacobs guns because it offsets the penalty of ne vs robots.

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#11

In 4 player Heath mode its great for healing

#12

I forgot to mention that it’s one of the best healing skills in the game too. Proc ck, swap to the grog, insta heal, swap back to damage.

Her game changers are just so good.

#13

Grog was like that before buffs with any elemental dot, heal is insane. But Maya doesn’t need Moxxi weapons for healing unless when fighting bosses she can’t Phaselock.

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#14

Yeah i dont really touch the grog

#15

Even with Zer0 i dont really use it

#16

I use the grog on raids and scary places like the badass round in merlins.

Been using a slag slowhand for mobbing/General for a while.

I don’t spec much harmony on my Maya. I’m a huge subsequence fan so I spec heavy into that tree.

#17

Fortunately those are not the only choices. There’s a wide range in between, and somewhere in there it’s balanced.

I’d lean towards dtesky’s 50% rather than hattieinduni’s 67%, but it would take some testing to figure out the right level (and most of us will probably disagree about where that is, exactly).

That’s a perfectly reasonable question, not a rhetorical question.

I’d say that slagged GUN loaders (and similarly wimpy armor-type enemies) should die from a single cloud kill, but towards the end of its duration. Without slag, they should take a noticeable amount of damage but not die. Flesh-type trash mobs shouldn’t die even with slag. Badass loaders should be hurt by CK if slagged, but not killed.

The Saturn metric here is that it should not be possible to kill OP8 Saturn with the level 1 Basic Repeater, as Derch did shortly after the final patch. If that’s possible, it means the skill is wrong and needs further rebalancing.

If someone takes the methods of the UCP and creates a minimalist, balanced patch to fix stuff like this, I’d be interested in the results.

It’s wildly overpowered compared to the other game-changers. The most direct comparisons would be Buzz Axe Bombardier and Scorched Earth, both of which seem pretty reasonable to me.

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#18

Of course, but it took how long for them to do anything with it at all? Let alone fine-tune it.

#19

I’m with @VaultHunter101 on this one. As Maya is a siren she should of course be OP! When the game was fresh she was a noob so to say, four years later her powers are more refined and as such more powerful.

I understand this isn’t a haters thread for this skill, but I’ve wanted to say this for a while now without risk of argument or offense. For the players either new to the table or an old hand who do or does not appreciate the buff, all I can advise is for them not to put that point in there. Pretty much like what most (not all) players did before the buff anyway.

Anyway how else is she going to be able to take on Lilith in Bl3! Considering that Lilith has since the events of BL2, now lost her mind! This of course is due to Rolands merciless murder, her heavy consumption of Eridium, and the stone cold way she killed Jack at the vault. That’s enough for anyone to lose their marbles right!

That last paragraph is in no way canon, merely wishful thinking on my own part :grin:

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#20

In a game where there is no PvP, ladders, or any sort of competition, there is no such thing as OP so long as the TOS is not breached or glitches are taken advantage of. Cloud Kill needed some love and while Maya did receive some polishing there is a lot that needed to worked on. Fortunately, the Unofficial Community Patch does a fine job of balancing things out.

The new Cloud Kill I welcomed with open arms as for a supposed game changer it was quite underwhelming.

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