Ogre and Critical Hits.....Something not right

[johnrr6]

OK so I was testing gear under the new Unofficial Community Patch and wanted to test the Ogre with a Legendary Grenadier which can give about a +50% to grenade damage in comparison to a Blue 6/5 Grenadier Mod.

Ogre gets the Grenade Damage Bonus…that has already been established…AND… this patch made no changes to the Ogre

So I tested with patch on and patch off…
No BAR
Started with NO skill points specced
Explosive Damage Relic

And I was getting exact same values without the Grenadier…patch on and Patch off…which makes total sense because this patch did not affect the Ogre.

Buuuuuut…

I found that the Ogre was only receiving about a 30% Critical hit bonus…30%!

All AR’s except the Hail and Jakobs are penalized with a minus 20% Type C Crit modifier…which when you actually do the math decreases an AR’s critical hit bonusby approx 15% to around 85%

But NOT the Ogre it seems…I re-ran the test several times and never got anywhere near 85% bonus on a Critical Hit… Again…numbers ran pretty consistently around 30%

The Ogre is a great weapon and not that good for Crits but a minus 70% negative modifier seems rather extreme for a weapon that probably will not get that many crits to begin with.

What is going on here?

have you guys noticed this?

Are we dealing with some kind of weird splash effects to Crit damage that I know nothing about??

Oh and incidentally…That Legendary Grenadier mod from the new patch gives a NICE little kick to all guns that benefit from Grenade Damage boosts.

[Adabiviak (Guajiro Pandoreño)]

[quote=“johnrr6, post:1, topic:1558655”]have you guys noticed this?[/quote]Haven’t! (nor have I tested for this either though).

[johnrr6]

Grab your Ogre
Doesn’t matter what character
Strip any mod or shield that affects damage
Shut off your BAR

And try it at the range and see what you come up with

I was getting pretty consistent results at around 30% Bonus

Which I have never seen any one document.

To me…it means the Ogre is penalized for crits FAR heavier than any AR and is similar to Blasters…(probably not a big deal because Crits are hard to come by with an Ogre) …but still…doesn’t seem right.

Wonder if it is the same for Purple Spitters.??

[johnrr6]

OK…so I just tested Purple Spitters and exact same behavior…approx 30% increase on a critical hit

Are Torgue AR’s limited like Blasters??? (Alien Barrel)

Guess I need to test a Standard Torgue Rifle with some different Barrels…perhaps it’s only the spingun barrel??

[Adabiviak (Guajiro Pandoreño)]

My Ogre: 33.6% increase for a critical hit (no BAR, COM, or relic, testing with the dummy: 441 -> 589 with crit).

edit: Evil Smasher (not pumped up): 33.5% critical damage.
2nd edit: same when it’s pumped. I do have the community patch active.

[johnrr6]

Tested all Barrels and am getting 33-35% across the board.
Torgue Barrel can’t crit
So any torgue based AR only gets at most a 35% increase from a crit

Is this documented anywhere because I sure did not know this?

[Adabiviak (Guajiro Pandoreño)]

Not that I know of (although I haven’t really paid attention to critical damage multiplier values before).

[khimerakiller (Pandora's Industrial Engineer)]

• No BAR
• No spec
• Blockade, BotA, Chain Lightning, L. Binder

My Ogre

---

Splash

Splash w/ special effect active

---

Body shot

Body shot w/ special effect active

---

Crit

Crit w/ special effect active

---

Since they both seem to scale the same way, I’ll just use the normal numbers.

Body shot - splash = should be 509,675
968,000 - 458,000 = 510,000

All good so far. Our crit should be…

Base damage x crit multiplier / Ogre type C crit + splash = crit damage
(509,675 x (2 / (1+0.2)) + 458,000 = 1,307,458

And that’s what we got (with rounding).

Confirming that the Ogre has the AR +20% type C crit multiplier. Or a 66.67% increase from a crit when no other crit multipliers are present.

Feel free to ask questions.

---

Splash can’t crit 97% of the time. I’m pretty sure that’s where you messed up.

[johnrr6]

And there’s the reason

Splash can’t crit for the most part

And you are right…I was not accounting for the splash added back in

Thank you!

[johnrr6]

So when guys say that AR’s are really only penalized about 15% total crit danmage on an AR Crit because the Type C crit penalty of 20%…

That is really kind of misleading as AR’s that get their damage mostly from splash…a la Torgue…for all intents and purposes…actually get hit with a penalty to overall crit damage of Approx 33%

Which is where my meager brain always put the AR crit bonus…because I use mostly Torgue AR’s in this game…around 70% bonus for a critical hit…

Makes sense…

[rush86]

Quick question. When the special effects kicks in and it does higher numbers. Does it just boost the splash damage?

[khimerakiller (Pandora's Industrial Engineer)]

It seems that it’s a flat +20% base damage increase, but since gun splash damage is boosted by additive gun damage, both are boosted.

So it boost the damage of the main projectile, but because of how interactions work in this game both are boosted.

[rush86]

O ok cool, thanks.