Community patch v2.0: Vault Hunters - Maya

Borderlands 2 Maya the Siren
#1

Ah stuff the name, everyone’s is different :stuck_out_tongue: Following the trend set by @johnrr6 and followed by @Chuck80 and @Lammas, here would be my ideas for a community patch to change Maya! Please not that I am not a PC player, but I don’t see how that’s relevant anyway, just pointing it out for all you guys who don’t know me/my platform.

I’ll try to keep this short:

#Motion

Accelerate: The only real reason to take this skill is for the increased bullet speed, though it’s not enough to be a stand-alone buff (like velocity) and the damage increase is very mild. I propose an increase from +3% per level to +5%

Inertia: One of my favourite skills, but at OP8 the shield recharge is only really significant on a Blockade because of the high capacity and damage reduction. I propose a slight increase from .8% shield recharge per second to 1.2%, or compromise at 1%. Perhaps the reload speed could even be reduced, +10% per level is a LOT when you’re constantly chaining kills, and have five points in both Inertia and Foresight you barely notice shorter reloads. Perhaps somewhere around the 6-8% range, 7% for a compromise.

#Harmony

Mind’s Eye: 5% critical damage is good but not a lot, there is much confusion about additive and multiplicative crit modifiers in both weapons and skills. I propose changing this to a multiplicative bonus.

Recompense: At OP8 this skill doesn’t see much use and even with a Rough Rider build is barely noticeable. I propose increase the chance to 15% per level (yes I know what this would do with seven or more points) and also return double damage, instead of equal.

Sustenance: .4% is very minor, the only way to make good use of this skill is with five points, or a nurse COM, however a Nurse COM already provides a set amount of health regen. I propose doubling the bonus to .8% per level but removing this skill from the Nurse COM to compensate.

#Cataclysm

Flicker: This skill is often just used as a placeholder to move further down the tree. +6% elemental effect chance is fine IMO but Maya applies so much elemental DoT that it’s almost moot, so to make it more appealing also increase elemental effect damage. If possible, have the damage increase coming from external sources only, such as weapons or grenades, so as to not overbuff Cloud Kill. +3-6%

Backdraft: Even after the October 29 2015 patch this skill still does not do much, however instead of increasing the effects I propose adding one, since it adds a nova and increases melee damage (in some capacity) add a spike shield effect to the skill as well, to make it function like a pseudo-HoT. Another idea would be to add corrosive and/or damage to melee attacks to make it more viable for melee Maya builds. I haven’t done enough testing to know exactly how much damage this does per rank, however.

Blight Phoenix: Again, even after the 2015 patch this skill still does not do a lot, and is seldom used for much outside of looking cool and a little extra damage for life-steal from Moxxi guns and Life Tap. Further increase damage to make this skill viable for both melee and close-range builds. I haven’t done enough testing to know exactly how much damage this does per rank, however.

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Unofficial Community Patch Thread
#2

Unless I’m mistaken Cloud Kills damage is not DOT damage (effect applied to the enemy himself) but similar to an AOE grenade, an area where damage ticks repeatedly. Not sure if it applies DOT on top its AOE damage though and how powerful that is.[quote=“Slif_One, post:1, topic:1558105”]
is seldom used for much outside of looking cool
[/quote]

I always put one point into BP to look cool :sunglasses:.

#3

I really think we shouldn’t be recommending buffs for the sake of it. Maya is fairly easy to play, with a ton of survivability and easy damage compared to other classes. While many of the recommended buffs would be nice, I feel it would make her totally overpowered.

Accelerate should at best be 4% level. Impact by comparison only boosts Gun Damage by 4% as well.

Inertia is perfectly fine at 0.8% level. You do not need a Blockade to make it work. Antagonist, Absorb and Turtle Shields work fine too. By comparison, Quick Charge is 1% level and only helps the recharge. Grim is 0.7%.

Minds Eye at 5% is plenty. Headsh0t only buffs crit damage and is 4% level. 5% Type B is just total overkill and would make it WAY too strong for a Tier 1 passive.

Agreed for Recompense.

Sustenance may not be huge, but barring Salvador, is the only completely passive health regen in the game. It has no reason to be stronger than circumstantial skills like Cooking up Trouble or Preparation. Maya has a ton of survivability (other classes would dream for LT, SR and KR) in the Harmony and Motion tree, as well as the best CC action skill. This would just imbalance her.

Agreed for Flicker and Blight Phoenix.

Backdraft is fairly powerful now especially if you build around it. I do agree the melee damage could be increased though.

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#4

I’m not writing those guides, but I think those skills and Able should be buffed TBH. Fair point on Sustenance, though I don’t think comparing Maya’s skills to others is a solid argument in most cases.

Under heavy fire, or while afflicted with a heavy DoT, the Blockade is the only shield that really stands up to all forms of damage through Inertia. Absorb shields are situational, as is to an extent The Antagonist.

As for some of the others that we disagree on, instead of comparing them to similar skills I think other characters could have changes as well, I’m not proposing that Maya be buffed and everybody else remain the same, hypothetically every character would receive changes including some buffs were this to happen, and no doubt Maya and Sal would be among the first to receive some nerfs as well.

I’m not cool :frowning:

#5

This.

I agree with your proposed changes to Blight Phoenix and recompense, but the other skills are working as intended and don’t really need the extra power.

For example: Sustenance is in line with the other passive healing skills in the game, and it is the only one that is truly completely passive. By contrast, Salvador (the health regen character) gets the same 2%, but conditional to taking damage and at a lower tier in the tree.

I think health regen skills in general could have been more generous in the whole game, but fixing sustenance kinda requires changing Gaige’s CuT, Sal’s T-Rex, Axton’s skill who’s name escapes me and Zero’s Innervate… Plus, all the regen items in the game.

That’s what I meant in the other thread about being careful about what we ask :slight_smile:

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#6

This, I’d honestly be alright with. Healing skills rarely have an impact at OP8, and as for relics slight regen will never be better than the BotA. They were ll fine at first, even in UVHM, but when OP8 happened a lot of skills and items became obsolete. Even the Evolution would benefit from a higher regen amount, it’s a great shield on its own but the regen is almost unnoticeable :frowning: Though, that’s all for someone else to crunch the numbers on in another thread.

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#7

I hate to be the one telling you this, buuut… :innocent:

EDIT: On a more serious note…

The only skills that really need some love, are skills that people will probably never spec into anyway. And that’s mostly because the COM’s that boost them are even worse. If those COM’s were to get a buff along with these skills, then maybe it would be of interest.

Witch - Speechless here! This has to be the worst COM in the game.

Banshee - Buffs to Shield regen and delay, while at the same time buffing Fleet. Who came up with that bright idea?

Fox - Reaper just isn’t enough.

Warder - This could be a really interesting COM if Recompense was buffed to a level where it’s actually useful.

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#8

I did try to focus on those skills, just threw some extra ideas in there, but…

I don’t even know where to begin with these, especially…

Yeah, couldn’t have said it better myself :stuck_out_tongue: Maya has arguably the best legendary COMs in the game, and some of the worst regular COMs. All of her good ones were given legendary status, and the bad ones well, they’re pretty bad… :frowning:

I love the Fox and Witch, I mean I want to love them… Rebounding Warder was a fun OP0 build, though not fantastic it was okay, but at OP8 even +11 in Recompense is not worth it. I understand the arguments around Maya, inexperienced players may scoff at her but us vets know better… Come OP8 though, she got the short end of the skill straw I think, at least the 2015 patch made up for Cloud Kill and Helios…

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#9

Oh my gosh. I am just imagining a viable melee maya with a buffed backdraft. Also definitely buff blight phoenix that skill is garbage, make it last longer and stronger

#10

There are only two Maya skills that need to be buffed badly: Recompense and Blight Phoenix.
All the others skills just do what the description say they do, and It works perfectly fine imo.

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#11

I actually run with a Fox COM most of the time :slight_smile:
It works fine for me
there are other COMs that need attention before this one

#12

[quote=“Chuck80, post:5, topic:1558105”]I agree with your proposed changes to Blight Phoenix and recompense[/quote]I’d second those:

[quote=“Ronnie_Rayburn, post:7, topic:1558105”]
Banshee - Buffs to Shield regen and delay, while at the same time buffing Fleet. Who came up with that bright idea?[/quote]Am I the only one who uses this to great effect with super quick Tediore shields? It’s a Backdraft machine: whenever an enemy pounds you, Backdraft fires. By the time they recover, your shield (and Backdraft) is ready for another (you want quick shield stats here). In order for Backdraft to hit the enemy, you have to be very close, as in, within melee range, so that buff is nice. If, however, you’re under some sort of sustained attack (maybe you pick up some DoT), Fleet comes in very handy to get out of that melee range to a safe spot. With Life Tap active, Backdraft automatically compensates for any dip into your health the shield-bashing shot took. Whoever thought of this COM was on the right track in my opinion.

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#13

Backdraft isn’t the issue. Fleet is! Unless you run a Rough Rider, Fleet will be of little to no use at all.[quote=“Chuck80, post:11, topic:1558105”]
I actually run with a Fox COM most of the time :slight_smile: It works fine for methere are other COMs that need attention before this one
[/quote]

No, it’s not the worst, but it’s not a great COM either. Reaper is what makes it OK, but I’d choose a Binder over a Fox every day of the week. In a similar way, I think everyone who runs a build based around Kinetic Reflection will go with a Trickster instead of a Witch. Simply because you get more out of a Trickster.

#14

I dunno - makes sense to me when I use it. I’m also partial to Fox and Witch COMs, so don’t listen to me.

#15

I’ve always understood the COM this way. You are not alone!

#16

I will not even try to defend the Witch, it’s garbage IMO. Nothing wrong with using it if you are having fun, but it’s not even close to being good objectively.

The Fox however is much better than given credit for.
When compared directly with the Binder (since it is the closest comparison possible), it’s really holding its own IMO

Both have Reaper and Helios
The fox Has blight phoenix while the Binder has suspension, but it really doesn’t matter because since reaper is so good, you’re most likely going to use a blue COM anyway.

From there, strategies diverge
The binder gets suspension and a cooldown bonus, and the point is generally to get foes in mid-air as long and as often as possible

Meanwhile, The Fox gets helios and a boost to burn damage, which kinda goes hand in hand. Suspension may seem like a better deal, but the point this time is to get phaselock to last the shortest amount of time (to get more Helios procs) so there really is nothing lost with this setup. You phaselock, proc a 10/5 Helios with nearly 50% extra damage, plus a Fire bone… and things start to burn pretty quick. Since the last patch that boosted many fixed damage skills, Helios can now kill on its own.

Granted, Fixed damage skills like Helios and DoT bonus are not the best strategy at OP8, and I would also take the binder in that case. But up to about OP3, the Fox actually performs better for me. Also, that burn damage bonus (and burn chance) still applies to Immolate and to any fire gun you might be using (I run my Fox build with a Blockhead usually)

So in short, its one of those COMs that doesn’t scale well in the OP levels, but for the rest of the game it’s really really good.

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#17

This, I’d honestly be alright with. Healing skills rarely have an impact at OP8, and as for relics slight regen will never be better than the BotA. They were ll fine at first, even in UVHM, but when OP8 happened a lot of skills and items became obsolete. Even the Evolution would benefit from a higher regen amount, it’s a great shield on its own but the regen is almost unnoticeable Though, that’s all for someone else to crunch the numbers on in another thread.

I agree the Evo’s health regen probably needs a decent buff. But it is a really solid shield regardless for health stacking builds. On Maya and Axton, the massive wall of health basically allows you to ignore even fire and shock dots. I don’t feel the rest of the health regen skills barring Salvador really need a buff though. The point of this patch is not to make OP8 easier. Which is what a universal buff to health skills would do. Currently, Axton, Maya and Gaige can all be run relatively comfortably without use of Moxxi weapons or Transfusions provided you play strategically. In fact, I fight very aggressively with my SS Maya (with a minimal investment in Harmony) without use of Moxxi and KR, Inertia and SR keep me up pretty easily.

Yeah, couldn’t have said it better myself Maya has arguably the best legendary COMs in the game, and some of the worst regular COMs. All of her good ones were given legendary status, and the bad ones well, they’re pretty bad…
I love the Fox and Witch, I mean I want to love them… Rebounding Warder was a fun OP0 build, though not fantastic it was okay, but at OP8 even +11 in Recompense is not worth it.

This is probably true though. The Fox and Witch are all perfectly runnable but that is due to Maya’s natural strength rather than the COM’s actual contribution. That said, barring a significant buff to the dot damage (and a buff to BP), I don’t really see how to improve them. Adding in powerhouse skills like CR, Wreck, Inertia, LT etc. to the class mods would just make them too similar in nature to her more iconic COMs. I agree buffing Recompense would help make the Warder a better COM. However, the problem with Maya Tank Builds is that unlike say Salvador, Maya already has a ton of inherent survivability. Hence, survability mods like the Nurse, Warder and Matriarch wouldn’t actually improve her survivability compared to her DPS mods like the Siren and L. Binder. Life Tap, Sweet Release and Phaselock are just that powerful.

Yeah, the Banshee should probably increase Shield Recharge Delay and Max Health instead haha. The Max Health penalty is beyond ridiculous at OP8.

IMO, the Cleric Com could do with some skill reallocation. Both Restoration and LT are skills that don’t really require additional skill points. And SS builds (which value additional points in Suspension) can’t really reach LT anyway. Perhaps it could boost Minds Eye (Wreck would be too OP) and Chain Reaction instead.

I understand the arguments around Maya, inexperienced players may scoff at her but us vets know better… Come OP8 though, she got the short end of the skill straw I think, at least the 2015 patch made up for Cloud Kill and Helios…

Maya basically has 2 skills that scale badly at OP8. That ain’t bad compared to other classes like Axton and Gaige. While the skills within the Cataclysm Tree may not actually have much synergy with each other, barring BP, they are individually quite powerful. Builds can actually rely on CK and Backdraft to be their primary source of damage, while Helios is pretty good on Binder builds. By contrast, Gaige’s entire LBT tree except Shock and Aagh does not scale well to OP levels, with utterly nonsensical skills like The Stare and and OTB. The core skill of the tree, Electrical Burn, requires very heavy investment to make it work and can barely even kill a Nomad (due to the multiplication of OP8 DR) with a L. Catalyst.

Hence, I would like to reiterate the point that only BP and Recompense (and maybe Flicker) require a buff. And what this shows is that Maya has a very well balanced Skill Tree.

#18

Cleric is a weirdo COM. To me, they made it to be played without Ruin. Like a Binder pretending to be a Nurse.

Edit: actually, looking at it, you can play it without SS or without Ruin.
Being honest, I feel like the Cleric is the kind of COM where you PL a weaker bandit and use its duration to buff yourself/heal your allies through Elated, Wreck and Chain Reaction.
Unlike a Binder setup, where you usually use your PL boosts to burst down the PLocked target and follow to the next one, healing through SR. So, you need Helios/Ruin to increase your burst damage in the end.

Anyway, this is about skills in the end. Not COMs… :sweat_smile:

#19

The problem with buffing any of Maya’s skills is it just ignores the glaring flaws in her action skill and how certain enemies like Raid Bosses can’t be Phaselocked. This might be fine at lower levels, but Gearbox placed Maya’s biggest DPS Skill Wreck and biggest Survivability Skill Elated behind a condition that she needs a specific enemy to Phaselock in order to access, along with nerfing Slag against said Raid Bosses. I would be fine if all Phaselock did to an unPhaselockable enemy was a little damage so long as you got the full duration of all the skills Phaselock depends on.

#20

I think this is because she is designed to be a support class in Coop, and Raid bosses are meant to be done in coop. Regular bosses usually have minions you can Phaselock.
This is why she also has Res as a mean to make PL useful when you cant hold down your target.

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