Just musing here…shoot me down on this and I won’t take offense at all:
As a Commando I LOVED explosives…just got toally used to them and using Torgue weps and chucking Tediore…really anything that went BOOM.
And I got to thinking…
Since I already discovered that a 5/5 Two Fang turns an Unkempt Harold into a HOSE (and mine wasn’t even a DPUH) And a Ravager is just a BEAST with it in your face…
And with all of Zer0’s Critical hit bonuses that I believe would FAR outstrip Axton’s grenade damage bonuses added to splash (Except with normal Grenades and Tediore chucking)
And with Explosive damage added to Kunai
And Weapons like a Ravager and Spitter and Ogre having low enough FR to definitely benefit from 2F…
And a Cobra for a sniper with Velocity and 2F
AND…."Explosive basically works on everything"
Would this not be a great build for a Gun Zero…with an explosive damage relic?
I guess the only down side is you lose the ability a BoA gives you that adds cool down.
I would say this is very reasonable. Axton gets a lot out of the explosive damage itself, where Zer0 gets more out of the explosive weaponry, such that I think he’ll do just fine with it. My favorite explosive weapon to use with him is the Landscaper, but that’s just because it’s super fun to use Execute to knock enemies into grenade nests.
…note to self: see if Be Like Water buffs the mine detonations when knocking enemies into them (since Execute enables the gun damage buff).
edit - it doesn’t (although the detonations do stack Rising Sh0t).
I like this idea a lot! Next time I’m on Pandora (once I’ve got Axton to OP8… OP7 right now) I will try explosive Zer0.
Something I didn’t suss for quite a long time playing him without research is that grenades don’t break Decepti0n. I often use this as a chance to slag, but it also means you can do exceptional things with grenades like Fastballs and Bonus Packages. Tediore reloads don’t break it either (provided you’ve fired a shot beforehand) and still get the bonus.
Vel0city really assists slow projectiles like the KerBlaster (but guns of that type don’t B0re), and makes Torgue better for long range in general. Speaking of B0re, apparently splash is applied on every impact. Nice!
Also I know Rocket Launchers aren’t usually associated with Zer0 by the great and the good, but I’m pretty sure they get Decepti0n bonus which is pretty neat. I’ve recently become a fan of the Creamer.
Sounds very reasonable. I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work. However, I do think that when it comes to the actual build, it wouldn’t differ much from the usual pistol/shotgun Zer0. The only difference is that you’d be using an Explosive Relic instead of the usual relics. Maybe that’s why not a lot of people have considered an explosive Zer0 before. There’s really nothing to set him apart from other Zer0s other than the fact that you’d be using a lot of explosive weapons. It would be more of an alternate playstyle to common Zer0 builds than a new build altogether, but it would certainly make for interesting play, specially considering the Two-Fang+Harold/Velocity+Torgue combos and the advantages that Deception can bring to grenade play. Actually, I’ve noticed the “Lotsa Fastballs while in Deception” trick has been growing in popularity lately.
Just thinking aloud a bit, and making some guesses/finger calculations.
I’ve never played axton myself, be he has a fair share of FR buffs himself, doesn’t he? So roughly it’s axtons grenade buffs on the splash portion of the damage vs zero’s crit buffs on the non-splash portion of the damage. Considering the spread on guns like ravager or dpuh, how much will effectively hit crit vs how much would “hit splash” ?
Cooldown on BoA is a big thing on zero, even disregarding the ability to get out of dodge, death mark not applied roughly translates to ‘your damage is now half’, and cutting cooldown means you can cycle kunai faster. If you are efficient with tossing kunai around, I don’t think you will surpass or make that back by buffing explosive.
Cobra with explosive relic is lipstick on a pig imo, even if you could match a muckamuck in damage the it would still be 4 times slower. Then there’s twofang with jacobs snipers, you need to be close with a stability prefix to hit both bullets. You’re better off with something that doesn’t kick, like droogs.
I don’t think it won’t work or is unreasonable, but I think it’s riding on the back of really strong weapons over playing into zeros strengths. crit buffs means you capitalize on weapons that put all their damage exactly where you point them, splash buffs means you capitalize on weapons spraying its damage down field, and torgue does the latter best. DPUH is just stronk enough to make zero builds in spite of this.
10/5 with legendary killer and shadow of the seraphs relic. 100% Two Fang chance. Makes bolt-action Jakobs rifles viable
Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#14
@hattieinduni I haven’t checked in here in a few days, so I missed this! Coincidentally, I recorded another Fastball run with Zero within the last 2 days.
On the subject of a more broad explosive approach, while still taking advantage of grenades not breaking Deception, I’ve been mulling over a combination using L Hunter for cooldown, Explosive relic, and Deception -> Kunai multiple targets -> Bonus Package. I think that could be devastating against melee targets who rush the decoy. I’ve also been looking at that with a shock Bone and Storm Front, or Fire Bone and Fire Bee.
The hold up with really exploring it has been the incredible effectiveness of element matching Fastballs. There is just so much satisfaction in pulling off 2-3 straight Kunai -> Fastball kills in a single Deception! I suppose a quad Kunai Kunai Kunai Kunai BP kill would be pretty damn sweet, though…
May have to break down and try those sets this week.
I did run a shock set with L Sniper, shock Bone, shock Pimpernel, Twister, Quasar, slag Pimpernel, and got a few multi kills by slagging, then Deception, Kunai on up to 3 targets, then two Quasars. Experimented with that in Southpaw, trying to bank the Quasars for the two big wave areas before Oney and Rouf. It allowed for good control and some multi kills, but shock was underwhelming after using fire Fastballs there.
From Experience: Use Meteor Shower. BP child grenades cover a wider area after the 2nd wave, so most of the splash is likely wasted. Also the waves go off at slower intervals, so you can outrun them easier.
Also, both take too long to fully disperse to rely on during Deception, and if you are in range for accurate Kunai, you are probably gonna die from the child grenades.
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Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#16
All valid points.
Just did 5 minutes of testing with shock Bone + Storm Front in Southpaw. It tore up the start, except Wott (of course). The face melting under two SFs was pretty quick, but it got annoying waiting for the teslas to go away so I could advance.
Cobra requires an explosive relic to be competitive with other Jakobs sniper rifles but doing so places it damage-wise between the Buffalo and Elephant in terms of raw power.
I don’t enough about Zer0 but wouldn’t the Swordplosion be a good choice for him as well?
Cobra really only needed the Grenade Damage bonuses to make it totally an option (a shame) but with an Explosive Damage Relic it is not bad. Not as good as others…but still OK.
TwoFang and Velocity with an Explosive Damage Relic and I think it would be quite good although I don’t know what range it would take for that second bullet to also crit.
