Two Fang Questions

Borderlands 2 Zer0 the Assassin
#1

I have Two Fang specced at 5/5 with a Professional Mod…

Buuuut.

It seems to “break” my firing rates on my faster weps…very off putting…breaks in the fire rate then steady.

What is the “break point” for Two Fang and weapon fire rates?? And framerate is NOT an issue on my PC as I have an overclocked and water cooled Intel Broadwell with an Nvidia 1070 and 32 GB of RAM

I’m sure you guys know some general rules of thumb with it that I’m ignoring.

Any help appreciated.

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#2

I wouldn’t go with Two-fang unless you’re using a slow firing weapon or a Jakobs, John. Basically anything with a double digit fire rate wouldn’t benefit from Two-fang. Others might have more insight, but that’s my advice.

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#3

http://oldforums.gearboxsoftware.com/oldforums/20150310033330/http://oldforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=315227

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#4

Thanks…good info…

My BAR FR is pretty high (Yes I have spent numerous hours prestiging my Commando 7 times…LOL)

So based on the data from that thread, Two Fang for me would have a diminishing return for me on any gun with a FR of above 4.0…

But what about Dahl Snipers…or really any Dahl with a card FR that is high?

Consequently…an Invader that has a low listed card FR but still shoots in a burst, would probably get an EXCELLENT kick from Two Fang.

Or am I not seeing this correctly?

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#5

I think you’re reading it right. I see it that way too. I can’t speak from experience, though, since I don’t really use Two Fang that much.

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#6

This is obviously my personal opinion and not a very popular one, but… I really dislike Two-Fang. Breaks up my rhythm and throws off my aim. I’d only take it if you’re using small magazine, slow firing shotguns/pistols almost exclusively and tend to stay in medium to close range. That’s where Two-Fang shines, in my opinion. I think it’s really, really bad for sniper rifles and any type of higher fire rate weapons. Actually, my Zer0 is Jakobs exclusive and I don’t use it. It doesn’t fit my personal style, I never felt like I needed it and I really don’t miss it.

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#7

Well Two Fang and an Umkempt Harold is just…THE SHIZ!

Oh my…I picked up a level 43 Hard Harold with average parts off the loot midgets.

Because of my mod Two Fang is at 5/5.

And…it procs CONSTANTLY on this Harold…makes an already highly successful gun just a fire hose!

Did the Creature Slaughter Dome with it at Level 47 and it just cleared EVERYTHING…LOL Almost wasn’t “sporting”…

Then I remembered how many times I died to get here and I was OK with it…LOL

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#8

Regarding that link… note that they’re testing on an XBOX, which I’m led to believe has an issue with fire rate caps due to how the hardware handles (limits) the frame rate. If you have a PC that can run the game at a high frame rate without issue (no matter the combat business happening on screen), I don’t think it’ll be a problem? My other Assassin uses Vladof gear, so I’ll do some testing here in a bit.

What’s the preferred method for calculating actual fire rate? I can go frame-by-frame through recorded video, but that seems primitive.

edit - with my new G-Sync monitor, I won’t see framerates higher than 165 (which is the max refresh rate of this thing). I could turn it off, but 165 should be plenty to handle high fire rates? I need an on-screen clock that gets recorded with my video to time things accurately.

What I think players may be noticing is the slowdown in fire rate when Tw0 Fang doesn’t proc? It seems more inconsistent because Tw0 Fang is injecting little bursts, but if you watch your ammo pool, you should notice it draining faster. What’s an example of a weapon that suffers from Tw0 Fang, rather than fires faster?

Also… how do fire rate buffs from BAR, Relics, and COMs interact with each other when calculating the fire rate?

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#9

You raise a good point…PC has far greater frame rate.

And this subject comes up all the time. Last it was TPS and I forget the guy but he claimed that it did not really matter PC or XBOX or PS3…there were certain caps that applied to all platforms and I think his claim was the PC can do 15 and under but NOT higher than 15 until your FR will breach 30. (Cant remember for sure)

He was using some kind of frame rate limitation formula but again I can’t remember…

I said that did not seem right as I had guns that with FR Boosts and my BAR were putting out over 20 bullets a second. and the reason I knew this was my Ammo count would drop over 20 rounds in one second.

I honestly don’t think there is a definitive answer…Maybe @Chuck80 knows.

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#10

Long story short: Two-fangs breaks over 10FR

Don’t use it with fast guns and don’t use it with snipers (as it waste ammo)

Other than that, it’s an unconditional, always on, multiplicative fire rate bonus … It’s awesome IMO

If you find anything, let me know, I’ve burned my eyes by staring at the screen for hours trying to figure out fire rate equations.

From what I remember, it was also true for PC, but the results were more predictable on Xbox because of the fixed frame rate, so that’s why they used that.

If my guess is good, the problem arise because the two-fang extra bullet comes out at 10FR in relation to the previous one, so at that point, it starts to mess with the next bullet that would come out afterwards.

Edit: also, link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15102yrQ2JVs6No8fBn7vDF1s-1h11JeDeSFw2S7q8X8/pub?single=true&gid=3&output=html

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#11

It turns a Hard Harold into a damn HOSE.

But would it work with a DPUH and the X2 Effect that comes with it???

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#12

Yes, absolutely, the double accessory isn’t timed: the 2 projectiles come out at the same time, like shotgun pellets do, so it is considered a single shot

The Harold is one of the guns that benefits the most from 2F as you can increase its fire rate through skills and BAR and still get full bonus from 2F without breaking the 10FR limit. Since 2F works by giving you extra shots rather than making you shoot faster, it is kinda like a FR bonus… but multiplicative to all other FR bonuses.

My favorite to use with 2F though: The Kitten. It has a FR of about 5-6, and with all my skills and gear, I get it to nearly 10 and then 10/5 2F kicks in :slight_smile:

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#13

Does Velocity help the kitten…Does Precision.

I mean it’s a pretty heavy damage gun, but the smiley face makes it tough to land all shots… if you could tighten that bad boy up a bit…

AND it being Moxxi…

Wow!

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#14

Velocity helps a bit, but the 2 best things are precision and (more importantly) a Severe prefix.

The Kitten is at its best when used like you would a shotgun IMO. Mid-to-short range. With 60% Two Fangs, it wrecks things very fast :slight_smile:

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#15

AND keeps your health up! I use a Fire Kitten with my Commando when I fight Terra…

Big Target…lots of bullet strikes…lots of health.

I IMMEDIATELY switch to it when my health goes to crap.

And it actully does decent damage to Terra…not earth shattering…but pecks away.

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#16

I’m using Shadowplay to record the video (full desktop) with the game in windowed mode to allow me to capture a little online timer along with the game. I open the recording in Windows Movie Maker (since it lets me go frame by frame forward and backward), and I record the time from the first to the last bullet. With the following on deck, a Stinger empties a magazine of 46 in exactly two seconds (the margin of error here being the accuracy of the web-based stopwatch and how much slop is missed between captured frames, which I expect is small?). Anyway, that should make the effective fire rate 23.

  • Vladof Stinger (10.4 fire rate)
  • Sheriff’s Badge (56%)
  • +10 in Tw0 Fang (60% chance for a double shot (200%) makes it “probably” 120%?)
  • Badass Rank (19.9%)

Let me test with something with a higher base fire rate. My Shredifier has 13.4… let’s see.

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#17

That makes it 60%, multiplicative with all other bonuses

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#18

…trying to calibrate this system. With BAR off and no skill points on deck, the (Expansive) Shredifier should fire at the rate shown on the card? I’m at OP3, in case that makes a difference.

[quote=“Chuck80, post:17, topic:1554351”]That makes it 60%, multiplicative with all other bonuses[/quote]Got it.

I’m using the same timer to see how long it takes to empty the Shredifier with (7.15 seconds) and without (8.65 seconds) Tw0 Fang (no BAR).

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#19

I’m not trying to discourage you, but both me and Derch tried to get the fire rate formula defined, and it was a nightmare.

You probably should stick to just checking the fire rate difference between 2F and without, with little to no other modifiers to fire rate. No sheriff’s badge, no BAR and no gun that requires spin up time like the Shredifier.

In fact, I would make my tests with a shadow of the seraph instead of 2F proper. They are the same and That way you can toggle between on and off without a trip to the respec machine every time.

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#20

Goodness…does Shadow of the Seraphs stack with 2F…

WOW…a Sheriffs Badge…2F and a Shadow of Seraphs…

Is this even possible??

When I was running the level 43 Harold and 2F at 5/5 I was using a 23% Explosive Damage Relic I found and the destruction was INTENSE.

Now, since I used to play a Commando, I have a very good BAR boost of 25% from Grenade Damage so that may really help the splash.

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