Preliminary Testing for Skill Guide

boombumr · December 17, 2016, 8:09pm

@khimerakiller @Hoyle4 @johnrr6 @Chuck80 @Derch @DemoniteBL

Hello everybody (people not listed above included). I need some help with testing some skills before I can tackle the reworked skill guide. To be entirely honest, I’ll really only have Christmas week to work on it before I have to go back work and other things, so I’m really going to need some help here. You guys are either Wilhelm pros, or people who are good at math, and I’m lacking a bit in both so your assistance would be greatly appreciated! And of course, anybody who can provide evidence and answers is welcome to post, with the understanding that I know nothing of math and will default to the guys listed above when dealing with numbers.

With that out of the way, here are the questions I have so far:

Is the wolf damage from Fire Support multiplicative?
How is Vengeance Cannon effect by various damage boosts?
What is the ammo regen for all gun types on Overcharge? (I do this one myself later on in the week)
Anything to do with the conditions needed to activate the Shock Absorbers bonus. I know this was touched on in Derch’s Wilhelm character guide video, but I just want to know if there are anymore surprises.

That’s all I can think of for now. If nothing else, if you guys can’t do the testing, I can get the numbers myself as long as you can math it out. Just tell me what you need so I can get you what you need.

Thanks a lot in advance everyone! In the absence of shift codes, this will be the Christmas present for the TPS community .

khimerakiller · December 17, 2016, 8:31pm

I already did it last month for a thread, so here.

Sniper - 30
Rocket Launcher - 0
Laser -130
Pistol - 85
Shotgun - 50
AR - 100
SMG - 120

In UVHM with all ammo SDUs bought. (idk if it makes a difference)

DeputyChuck · December 17, 2016, 9:17pm

I know very little of Wilhelm, probably the character I know the least of the last 2 games combined.

I’ll stick around a bit and help in any way I can, but between Khim, John and Hoyle, you’re in good hands already

boombumr · December 17, 2016, 9:56pm

Everyone will have all their SDUs eventually, so there’s no reason to mention what it is at every point.

Thanks for that post btw. That’ll save me a bit of time.

boombumr · December 17, 2016, 9:57pm

If you can just be a math check, or fill in some holes if Khim and Hoyle don’t have an answer (I haven’t seen John in a while) that would be more than enough.

johnrr6 · December 18, 2016, 5:05am

Been a while but here is what I remember…but I could be wrong so don’t take it for gospel. Hoyle and KK were my go to guys for answers on Wilhelm so you’ve hit the right folks. IIRC Chuck was the Nisha go to but knew all the weapons exceptionally. Derch is exceptional on equipment and weapons as well but he hasn’t been around much lately…like me.

Fire Support was additive only IIRC.

VC was ALWAYS a source of discussion. There were ways to maximize it…even make it somewhat OP. Unfortunately I VERY seldom used it as I found it more distracting than useful…Kind of like I never used Nuke much on Axton. I’m a really bad person to ask about this particular skill…LOL

Shock absorbers gives a nice boost BUT you really have to alter your playstyle to maximize it…and by doing so, I found myself far less flexible for defensive abilities. AND, lets face it, with the low gravity and all of us liking to jump around like crazy people in the game, just how useful could it be??

I personally got my biggest FPS gains by maxing out EVERY critical hit skill I could and focusing on freezing. Chucking with a Laser Disker on a Frozen Target was HUGE!. I also abused overcharge like no tomorrow and altered my playstyle to attack in rushes to coincide with it.

It’s been a while and I wish I could remember more. I thought Wilhelm fun and challenging even if he couldn’t use Luck Cannons to smash everything…LOL

boombumr · December 18, 2016, 5:22am

Glad to have you back!

Do you have a source that points to some math on fire support? Otherwise, I’ll have to get some numbers in game.

johnrr6 · December 18, 2016, 5:25am

Sorry, I do not. Maybe PM Derch…or KK or Hoyle might know.

somebody248d · December 18, 2016, 7:55am

It’s multiplicative with Rolling Thunder and Laser Guided.

My old numbers from way back when I first tested this:

2970 -base Wolf damage
4159 -with +40% from Fire Support (2970 * 1.4)
5199 -adding +25% from Laser Guided (2970 * 1.4 * 1.25)
6239 -adding +20% from Rolling Thunder (2970 * 1.4 * 1.25 * 1.2)

VC appears to be boosted by additive gun damage, LG, amp damage, fire damage (elemental), grenade damage, fire rate, and Glitch effects. It also has a high DOT proc rate and does good things to accuracy and recoil, both hipfire and ADS.

Testing this skill is a pain not only because of how it activates, but also because its base damage varies by about 10%, making exact calculations impossible. I’d like to post my old numbers for this, but they don’t make much sense (something else threw off some of the tests), so I’m going off an old list of gear and skills that boost VC (made back when I knew how to read the old data).

Also, VC is boosted by some gun duality bonuses (depending on your equipped weapon), but not from other similar bonuses (for example, the Bulwark has no effect).

boombumr · December 18, 2016, 4:48pm

If you, @Chuck80 @Derch @Hoyle4 or @khimerakiller can provide me with the testing conditions, I can try to get the numbers. So long as you guys got the math, I’ll take care of the dummy tests.

khimerakiller · December 18, 2016, 5:02pm

The problem of seeing whether or not Fire Support is multiplicative is that there are so few boost that increase Wolf’s damage. Of which you have FS, Laser Guided, and Rolling Thunder off the top of my head.

We already know LG is multiplicative.
And since there are only 2 other options, we can only conclude that one is multiplicative, but we can’t conclude which one. Not that it really matters, as if you only have one additive boost it might as well be multiplicative.

So yeah if you get the numbers I can do the math easy, but I can’t definitively tell you if FS is multiplicative. Only that FS+RT is multiplicative or additive with each other.

Unless there is a variable I’m missing that could solve this problem.

boombumr · December 18, 2016, 5:03pm

I’ll get the numbers then. Give me a few hours.

EDIT: Took a lot of pics, some probably not necessary.
Tested with no gear, no bar, and no skills barring Auxiliary Tanks.

No bar, no damage skills, no COM- 26032

5/5 Fire Support- 32536

1/1 Laser Guided- 48809 ***

5/5 Rolling Thunder at 5 stacks- 39049

5/5 Rolling Thunder at 5 stacks + 1/1 Laser Guided- 73214

5/5 Rolling Thunder at 5 stacks + 5/5 Fire Support- 48809***

5/5 Fire Support + 1/1 Laser Guided- 61012

5/5 Fire Support + 1/1 Laser Guided +5/5 Rolling Thunder at 5 stacks- 91517

***It’s interesting to note that Laser Guided is equal to 5 stacks of rolling thunder + fire support. I don’t know if that’ll make the calcs easier, but it’s there.

Hoyle4 · December 18, 2016, 9:41pm

Fire support and Rolling thunder are on different calcs.

26032 * 1.5 (Thunder) * 1.25 (Fire) = 48810 (as seen in pic)

Rolling Thunder and LG are on different calcs.

26032 * 1.5 (RT) * 1.25 (LG) * 1.5 (LG’s UVHM Buff) = 73215 (as seen in pic)

if FS was on a different calc system than LG, we should expect

26032 * 1.25 (FS) * 1.25 (LG) * 1.5 (LG’s Buff) = 61012 (As seen in pic)

Therefore all three together should give us:
26032 * 1.25 (FS) * 1.5 (RT) * 1.25 (LG) * 1.50 (LG Buff) = 91518 (as seen in pic)

#Conclusion
Laser Guided, Fire Support, and Rolling Thunder are multiplicative with each other. Need more data to see where other wolf buffs (if they exist) lie.

boombumr · December 23, 2016, 5:58pm

Hey guys, just wanted to update this a bit.

I have no idea how to test shock absorbers, so I’m just going to go off Derch and Hoyle’s video. Also have to test the grenade damage on VC. After that, we’ll be good to go, and the guide should be up before the New Year.

Hoyle4 · December 23, 2016, 8:36pm

As far as shock absorbers go as long as u have the stick pressed in u get the damage

Testing GrDmg with VC is as easy as putting on a bomber Oz

boombumr · December 31, 2016, 9:30pm

Probably won’t be done today, but by tomorrow should be.

Happy New Year everyone!