The Legendary Hunter on Melee Zer0

Borderlands 2 Zer0 the Assassin
#1

Why does nobody use the Legendary Hunter COM on a Melee oriented Zer0 ?

It certainly gives you less consistent damage but 10/5 C0unter Strike, 10/5 Iron Hand the extra survivability that you get from Decepti0n makes it imho better for mobbing scenarios (especially versus Bandits since they are very aggressive).

Of course the Legendary Ninja COM is better in raiding scenarios because of the various melee buffs, but those buffs aren’t really needed in mobbing scenarios. I keep Many Must Fall processing multiple times and I get a really quick Cooldown Rate and the ability to heal when I cloak, making it the best COM for survivability through Decepti0n (the extra +30% health from 10/5 Iron Hand is also very nice).

So what do you guys think ? Do you consider it to be a useful/viable COM ?

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#2

I’m partial to the Leg. Ninja because of all the melee buffs. I do a lot of co-op mob raiding, so I will give it a try.

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#3

I do sometimes if the damage is fine and I want more cooldown (and C0unter Strike is pretty fun).

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#4

So long as you have to damage yourself with a Chain Lightning to get reliable roid, the L. Ninja will always be better in my mind since you’ll be using a Grog/Rubi to keep from killing yourself anyway. At OP8 I even find the Love Thumper lacking at times to get the MMF chains I desire. So since the L. Hunter gives little to no damage to roid Zero, the L. Ninja will always be better. I can kill stuff roid-less at OP8, but I can’t chain kill Bruisers roid-less.

And if you’re using life steal, Iron Hand is more detrimental than it is helpful.

I have more, but this should suffice.

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#5

The extra cooldown rate is the key here. As long as Zer0 is in Decepti0n, he is safe. Zer0’s survivability is not defined by his ability to life steal through Grog Lightnings since if you’re out of grenades (the regen is god slow), you are basically screwed.
The reason I like the Hunter COM is that you get a way faster cooldown rate, and you still have 10/5 C0unter Strike, 10/5 Ir0n Hand annd 10/5 Death Bl0w to cover your back.

P.S : I agree with you on the Love Thumper, I just don’t like it, especially on multiplayer.

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#6

True, but by that extent I was trying to say the 10% health on cloak and the 15% max health from Iron Hand is kinda moot. Just on the surface level the Ninja’s “up to 20% health regen on kill” from Resurgence and 100% top off every time you strip your shield with the Grog is already better in terms of survivability.

Then there is the survivability granted by Deception, and lets see what the coms bring to the table to emphasis my points later on.

  • Hunter
  • Iron hand - At almost any point when you’re dealing with life steal this is already a poor skill choice. And the additive 15% melee damage is literally nothing to roid Zero.
  • Counter Strike - A percent chance that after you are hit, one melee strike can deal +250% additive damage for a short time. It is additve, but since it is a lot it is more or less fine, but it’s not always up and it is for one melee strike.
  • Killing Blow - They both have killing blow.
  • The passive is 47% cooldown. Very useful, but skill and damage can cause it to have diminishing returns.
  • Ninja
  • Follow Through - Ignoring the rest, the 7 seconds of 40% movement speed is massive towards maintaining MMF chains and will increase your survivability more than you’d think. And 40% additive melee damage.
  • Backstab - 40% multiplicative damage is massive in terms of damage increases.
  • Ambush - 20% multiplicative damage " ".
  • Killing Blow - They both have it.
  • The passive stat is 64% additive melee damage.

So as we know the L. Ninja is better at raw damage, but what does that mean in terms of survivability?

  • First off MMF has a hidden ability where is gives you about 20% cooldown for every kill you make in Deception, up to 5 times for ~100% cooldown. So if I have the power to kill 5 enemies with the Ninja, but only 3 with the Hunter, the 47% cooldown becomes barely anything as I have 100% with the Ninja and 107% with the Hunter.
  • Longer MMF chains with the Ninja also mean longer de-aggro frames from Deception and it becomes a game of “is burst de-aggro better or sustained de-aggro better?”. All up till the point that “burst” kills the entire room and becomes better by default. As one of my favorite quotes to use on these forums is “If everything is dead, then nothing is killing you”.
  • Killing enemies faster as you require less prep time with the Ninja allows you to kill a group of enemies with more Deception timer left. So if for any reason you want to restart your chain canceling Deception early will refund more of your cooldown back.
  • More Innervate, ect…

So it boils down to “who needs 3 Deceptions to kill a room, when I can do it with one?”.

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#7

[quote=“khimerakiller, post:6, topic:1551310”] … 100% top off every time you strip your shield with the Grog[/quote]Not all of us play like this though. Neither of my Assassins use a Grog Nozzle, Chain Lightning, or roid shield, for example.

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#8

What does your melee Zer0 use to slag, Ad? And do you use Kittens much? (thinking instead of Grog).

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#9

My Jakobs assassin uses the Law for melee and a Transfusion grenade for slag. His focus is more of a Cunning/B0re routine (he only goes as far as Execute in the Bloodshed tree), so he typically uses melee just to finish off enemies in the Killing Bl0w range).

My Vladof assassin uses the Rapier or a bladed Hail for melee, and a Stinger or Patriot for slag (the Rapier is slag, but that 9% slag chance is rather low), and he’s got a pretty full Bloodshed tree. The bladed Hail is nice because the crit damage is high, and Resurgence plus Moxxi weapon damage help out his health, but it’s nowhere as simple as holding a Grog Nozzle and giving someone a stern look to completely refill my health bar. (It is, however, almost as simple as shooting a slagged flesh enemy to refill my health bar :smile:).

I do have a shock Kitten, and I love that thing… so much B0re :blush:

Of all the manufacturers who don’t make slag grenades, why Vladof? :dukesad:

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#10

True, but my post was more in the scope of what is the best for a MMF Zero. Allegiance and Hybrid Zeros are outside the spectrum in those cases, as you more or less purposefully gimp yourself in order to stick towards a thematic build. Not say they’re bad, they are very fun and I do them myself, but you can’t really use them as a case in this thread.

You wouldn’t be able to use the L. Ninja anyway because its Maliwan. :stuck_out_tongue:

Which then is fine for a hybrid Zero, but the thread is titled “The Legendary Hunter on Melee Zer0”. So that’s what I based my points on.

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#11

[quote=“khimerakiller, post:10, topic:1551310”]You wouldn’t be able to use the L. Ninja anyway because its Maliwan.[/quote]Nah - I don’t include COMs in my allegiance rules… their manufacturer assignments don’t seem to follow a coherent pattern.

Through the lens of an assassin who’s fully booked in the Bloodshed tree, I would have to side with the Legendary Ninja, if for no other reason than most of it hits skills in that tree. As you say, while the Legendary Hunter gives an automatic 10% health bump, maintaining Many Must Fall chains keeps Innervate up longer and each kill adds not less than 24% health. Even one kill during Decepti0n with the Legendary Ninja should provide more health than entering Decepti0n with the Legendary Hunter.

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