Krieg StV self damage testing

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

so I decided to test Krieg’s self damage after some discussion on another post

and Id like to share the results

first, instead of writing a TL;DR at the end I’m gonna post the results first
since the rest are just gonna be full of screenshots

the test was done by a lvl 72 OP0 Krieg in TVHM and OP0 UVHM (and yes as a minor discovery the self hit damage stays the same in TVHM and UVHM )
I did not test this in the OP levels

so the results are…

1. melee damage bonus from skills/Class Mods/BXR do not affect the self damage

2. Self damage is the same against shield and flesh

3. Roid damage does not affect the self damage

4. Rapier/Law/Bladed weapons dont affect your self damage

5. Rough Rider decreases your self damage
   however, Blockade does not as well as Taste of Blood/Release the Beast/Numbed Nerves

6. Grenade damage(or at least Fuel the Blood and your BAR) increases the self damage, leading me to suspect that self damage is counted as Grenade damage

7. its so hard to proc StV self hit when you want it to proc

and now for the screenshots

Melee skills and Bladed weapons testing

this is our experiment subject
Krieg
with no BAR and no health boost other than 5/5 Feed the Meat

with no melee boost other than 1/5 Silence the Voices…

this happens

damage dealt: 132641

now with a Law/Rapier/Bladed Grog…

as you may know
if you self hit with a Grog you can life steal from that
which is why the Grog self damage is lower
damage done with Law/Rapier: 132641
damage done with Grog Nozzle: 46425 which is equal to 35% of 132641

now with a 5/5 Silence the Voices…

nothing changes(I did test it with Law/Rapier and its still the same)

I also tested this with Empty the Rage and Pain is Power
and none of them affect the self hit damage

how about Blood Axe Rampage?

Shields and damage reduction testing

now lets get some shields on

Hide of Terramorphous?Love Thumper?

nope.

now to see whether Self hit damage is different against shields or not
I used the Antagonist

all Maliwan I believe

Damage dealt: 717323-584682= 132641
seems its not explosive/shock/fire/corrosive damage at least

now something interesting

(this pic was taken later as I forgot to do so when I was testing)

this is the health I have with a Rough Rider on

after performing a self-hit…

damage dealt: 1345775-1239662=106113
Finally a difference in number
whats odd is that 106113/132641 = 0.8
so basically Rough Rider reduced the damage by 20%
while the damage reduction formula (1/1+total damage resistance) suggests that the damage should be reduced by 16.6%

then how about other sources of damage resistance? Blockade?

before

after

damage dealt: 526320-393679= 132641
???

how about Taste of Blood?

Numbed Nerves? (kinda inaccurate as there was the burn damage, but I tried to minimize the effect of it by taking a pic right when StV procced

hp difference: 138878
im pretty sure if Numbed Nerves did work, wed be seeing a lot more difference than that

Fuel the Blood and Grenade Damage testing

I did proc a self hit at 100% health in every screenshot
but the stacks were not constant( they were mostly in the 85~95 range tho)

so the self damage isnt gonna be constant

still
so testing with a Legendary Reaper COM(not thatd itd make any difference in the result itself)

with 5/5 Fuel the Blood

third one is the best result I got

damage dealt:
278547
295790
297116 respectively

which is
2.1
2.23
2.24 times the standard self hit damage respectively

now with a Legendary Sickle (so 10/5 Fuel the Blood)

(I took the screenshot way after I did the self hit so dont mind the bloodlust stack)

again 3rd result is the best one I got
damage dealt:
448368
458938
469550

which is
3.38
3.46
3.54 times the standard self hit damage respectively

interesting that a Grenade damage boost would increase the self damage, right?

so I decided to test another source of Grenade damage which was…my BAR

you can see that I have 15.6% Grenade damage on my BAR

now with my BAR on(and no Fuel the Blood), what happened is…

before

after

damage dealt: 153341
oh hey the damage increased

guess how much it increased

153341/132641 = 1.156

15.6% increase in self hit damage

this leads me to suspect that self hit damage may be considered a grenade damage
too bad theres no grenade resistance items else id test that too

afterthoughts

I shouldve tried testing this on OP levels too but I was 1. too lazy
2. too busy
for that

I find it weird that Fuel the Blood was increasing self hit damage more than it should
and that Rough Rider decreases damage by 20%
while all other Damage Resistance sources do not

perhaps there needs to be a thorough test on each Damage Resistance source and how they work?

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

one complementary testing

Blood Axe Bombardier testing

so Blood Axe Bombardier by itself does not change your self hit damage

how about with Grenade damage?

so with BAR on for the 15.6% Grenade damage

damage dealt: 153341

oh hey its the same as when I didnt have BXB specced

conclusion: BXB does not affect your self hit damage
whether or not you have grenade damage bonuses

[Adabiviak (Guajiro Pandoreño)]

[quote=“the_Nocturni, post:1, topic:1550093”]too bad theres no grenade resistance items else id test that too[/quote]Would things that resist explosive damage count for this, like a Resistance/Skin of the Ancients relic with explosive damage resistance?

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

I do not believe theyd count
The reason being that
If the self damage were explosive

It should be doing 0.8 times damage against shields

The shield testing section shows that the self hit damage is same whether on shields or flesh

[The_J5 (J5 sounds strange, doesn't it?)]

Interesting post! thanks. The only thing I knew about self dmg was that it gets reduced by the grogs healing (and other moxxi weapons)

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

That was pretty much the only thing I knew about it too
Glad you found it beneficial

[Spunky117 (The guy that Punches everything)]

Good findings!

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

Thank you

Tho this actually makes me want to test more things

Like the Rough Rider acting weird
Or would a normal damage resistance relic reduce the damage
Etc

Probably in due time
But busy rn sooo

[Spunky117 (The guy that Punches everything)]

Well the way it works, from what I have tested over the years is damage resistance has a say in how much damage you take from stv, but stacking your health decreases it A LOT more. So a good health relic will benefit you more than a damage resist one.

[CPviolation]

Are you sure that your test with fuel the blood is correctly executed? It just looks to me that damage increase when you swapped to legendary sickle came from boosted StV and passive com melee damage bonus, not from fuel the blood. Bar also has bonus melee damage. Rough rider multiplyes recieved damage by 0.8 so its a different type of resistance.

Edit: I went in game to test it and StV lvl and passive com bonus dont affect self damage. Your theory about self damage being grenade damage seems to be legit so far.

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

You may have missed earlier parts of my post
The first set of tests I did was the Melee damage testing

And you can see that the level of StV as well as the melee bonus from other skills do not affect the self damage

Also
I’m currently suspecting that the Rough Rider is a multiplicative damage reduction yes
But I have not been able to find any posts that talk about Rough Rider’s damage reduction in detail in the forums
Which frustrates me as I am currently too busy to test it myself

Would you mind me asking what the source for your claim that Rough Rider is a different resistance is?

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

Oh no im not trying to find out if its an effective way of reducing self damage

Im trying to find out whether it works in the first place
Since none of Krieg’s Damage resistance/Reduction skills seem to affect the self damage

[Spunky117 (The guy that Punches everything)]

Aaaah I see I see. I’m not sure about resist relics then. Perhaps an explosive resist or a physical resist may but I’ve never cared enough to test em.

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

Same
But i kinda want to be thorough cus its Krieg stuff

Im gonna try to test out a physical(normal) damage resist
I dont think the self damage is explosive
As it does not have the 0.8 multiplier against shields

[Jefe (བར་དོ་ཐོས་གྲོལ)]

Do you think anything has changed with the last patch? I’m sure I remember roid shields boosting StV self-damage.

[CPviolation]

I heard it in some of Admiral_Bahroo vids, also, like you said, if it wasnt a different type of resistance it would follow the (1/1+total damage resistance) formula or counted as 0 in the case of StV self damage which seems to ignore regular damage resistance according to your testings. I suspect Rough Rider’s damage resist is actualy a damage reduction like the one from Maya’s kinetic reflection skill which can exceed 100%, resulting you being healed by enemy bullets instead of taking damage, Antagonist also works that way. You can get up to 159% damage reduction against bullets with both antagonist and 11/5 kinetic reflection iirc.

[the_Nocturni (RavingRants are back)]

Thanks!

Didnt know about the Kinetic reflection/Antagonist stuff either
Thats very interesting