Since this discussion never seems to end I thought I would do a more indepth look at it
This started back at level 50 back before people really understood ca but thanks to @Aether_Seraph we now have a much better understanding of it. While zer0 has a sniper tree, phaselock holds enemies still and lets you snipe with ease. So lets start to look at this more in depth.
Part One Test Dummy
In part one I went to the test dummy to just take some shots with snipers and look at the damage potential. Here I will show real math.
Zer0’s Damage buffs
Deception up to +200% gun damage
Headshot +4% type a critical hit damage per level
Killer +10% type a critical hit damage per level as a kill skill
OSOK +12% gun damage per level on the first shot
Velocity +3% type a critical hit damage and +2% gun damage per level
Kill Confirmed upto +8% type a critical hit per level
CA for each stack you get +5% gun damage and +6% type a critical hit damage
Ambush +4% multiplicative damage per level if enemy is targeting someone else or if you are behind them.
Rising Shot +2% gun damage per level per stack, up to 5 stacks.
Innervate +2% gun damage per level while in deception
Death Mark 80% total multiplicative enemy debuff (like slag)
Follow Through +6% gun damage per level as a kill skill
The trick here with zer0 is you can’t have all of that active at once, OSOK for example is only on the first shot so you can’t have that and Rising Shot, or KC is similar, you also won’t get RS and Deception either.
I will add in the math later (running out of time right now)
Maya’s Damage Buffs
Accelerate +3% gun damage per level
Mind’s Eye + 5% type a critical hit damage per level
Wreck +6% gun damage per level while phaselock is active
Reaper +8% multiplicative damage per level if enemy is above 50% health
As you can see Maya as way less and I’ll show you the math with her later.
Now the non damage buffs
Zer0
A lot of reload, swap speed, and sniper mag size buffs.
Movement speed and deception allows him to line up shots without being seen
B0re can either kill multiple enemies in one shot or really destroy certain bosses really well.
B0re shows the crit spot while in deception
B0re overrides bullet reflection that helps with certain enemies.
Maya
Phaselock holds enemies still making crits easy, also the CC of it helps manage the battlefield.
Scorn and Ruin allow you to slag without swapping
Foresight and Inertia give you mag and reload buffs
Wreck is a solid fire rate buff while phaselock is active
Cloudkill can activate every 5 seconds dealing a lot of damage secondary to your guns in a decent size AOE
Chain Reaction can get you multiple kills or more damage to enemies you did not target
Converge brings enemies to phaselock, both to make your AOE skill and CK more effective but also stuns them for a second or two so you are not being shot at
Her tanking skills allow her to keep shooting without needing to heal, also opens up grenade slots and weapon slots
So the first test dummy test and looking at all this on paper shows a few early results
Zer0 has much higher damage potential that might not meant too much mobbing with strong snipers it will make a huge difference on Bosses and possibly UBA or SBA enemies.
Maya has many non damage advantages that might allow her to keep up on non bosses.
Part Two Skullmasher
On the first field test I used the Skullmasher in the Southern Shelf Bay so the results
Maya finished 11:44
Zer0 finished 12:58
This wasn’t a speed run however just killing and doing as normal of a run as I could, trying to be safe.
Maya has 1 ffyl, zer0 had 2 but these were mostly player error.
Zer0 showed off his higher damage being able to one shot non slagged enemies easier and taking down enemies with fewer shots.
Maya had an easier time slagging and thanks to CK and CR got many multi kills. Also had an easier time wtih difficult to reach enemies behind cover thanks to Phaselock and Converge. Also because of the multikills did better with ammo even while doing less damage per shot.
Zer0 had higher range thanks to Velocity and Precision.
In the end here it was about a wash, I am more experienced with Maya than Zer0 so that could of been part of the reason Maya finished a bit quicker.
I will be doing many more of these with both red text and non red text snipers, I will also do a breakdown of Chain Reaction vs B0re when it comes to sniping.
It looks like I chose a good day to return to the forums, I thoroughly enjoy your content and I have no doubt that this will be a great series, but I have to say from my totally biased standpoint that I think Maya is the best sniper Sorry Zer0, at least you have a cool sword
Thanks bro, I’ll pop in on Friday after the test.
1 Like
Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#12
NO BUT HAY GUSY WUT ABUOT A KREEG FOR MAEK THU BETS SINPER?! HEE KEN MAEK UH BUTTSAX RAPMAGE ADN THROE A BUZZTAX REELY FAR LIEK UH SPLOESUV SINPER KINDA LIEK A KOBRUH RIFEL BOOM OK LIEK TAHT! NO BUTT ASLO SUMTIEMES ACKSTIN KEN WAIT NO! I TIHNK AGEN ADND I EM PURTY SHURE ETS ONLIEST KREEG HOO EZ THUH BETS SINPER I! SHOODENT HAF SED NUFFIGN ABOWT UH ACKSTUN HA I EM SUMTIMES A SELLY BOY! LOL!
By which I mean to say that I’m enjoying the videos. Looking forward to seeing if people start pulling out recordings of Maya using snipers to kill the Dragons or Vora. That would crank up the controversy a bit.
Zero obviously can do the most damage with snipers. Hes really great with them, and a great character in general. But i personally like maya better for sniping.
This is my off-hand expectation based on a quick look at skills and knowing their basic gameplay differences. Maya’s control (which is why she seems to be becoming my personal favorite of the 6 VHs in this game) makes her wonderfully able to adapt to a wide variety of scenarios. However, she is not going to match Zer0’s insane damage potential, and in skilled hands, Zer0’s offensive power advantage will really show. I’m not saying that Maya isn’t a good sniper, on the contrary, I would actually recommend her to newer snipers wanting to learn how to snipe better (she’s MUCH more forgiving than Zer0 to play as a sniper), and once you get the art of sniping down, swapping to Zer0 to hone your skills and mechanics further.
Edit: As a side note, I have very good shooting mechanics, and love sniping in general (and in BL2 in particular) because it rewards me nicely for applying myself. That said, I am curious if people would be interested in seeing a 1-OP8 sniping only Zer0 run (livestreamed and recorded for later viewing).
I got one two days ago from a chest, but the Snider next to it was what caught my eye. I’ve never gotten one from Mothrakk either, one of the few drops I’ve not obtained from its designated boss.
I have Maya at OP4, and just restarted Zero from scratch. He is at 45ish, mostly from leveling him with OP8 Sal. Im using snipers and SMGs so far. Learning his mechanics in NVHM still. So far so good. Also just going with the gun skills I think make most sense. Maybe after getting him thru UVHM and level 72 I’ll check out builds. So all that to say this is a greatly informative post, and I will keep an eye out for more.
Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#19
Sniping in Borderlands is really about two things:
Damage math
Giving yourself time to apply the math
Zero wins at 1, Maya is the champion of 2… unless PL is off the table, rendering Zero her superior at that, as well.
Sorry Zer0, at least you have a cool sword 
