Ricochet and CE synergy?

Borderlands 2 Gaige the Mechromancer
#1

If I understand correctly, according to Kalibur, some guns that naturally ricochet will get the “ricochet-toward-enemy” effect from Close Enough while ignoring the damage penalty. As I see this natural ricochet synergy mentioned frequently when it comes to Gaige, I felt a need to investigate.

I do not have a link to the original data, but this was the list I saw on jianderson’s Top Gear thread:

[quote]Bandit PCs - confirmed
Blockhead - Unsure
Fibber - confirmed
Stalker - confirmed
Stinger - Nope
trick shot Jakobs Pistols - Confirmed*
Dahlminator - confirmed
Wanderlust - Too hard to tell, I have no idea
Stinkpot - confirmed
12 pounder - confirmed
Orc - Nope
Jakobs Cannons - confirmed
All Railers - confirmed
Tidal Wave - Nope
Madhous! - Confirmed
Vladof Blasters - confirmed*
*One thing I do want to note, is that I observed two values from Blasters, and Jakobs Trick Shots, meaning that (I think) while the effect naturally happens I also believe Close Enough can proc and lower the damage. These are the only guns that have this property. It is not a splash, as you can see the Trick Shot Iron just doesn’t have that.[/quote]

In the firing range, if I shoot at the floor, the natural ricochet path will make the bullet hit the target regardless of CE. However, if I shot at the side of a pilllar, natural ricochet would make the bullet miss, and only a CE ricochet would make the bullet hit the target.

Railguns were said to be immune to the penalty. However, when I fired a railgun at the pillar, the shot would always deal half damage if it hit the target. This could suggest it isn’t immune to the Close Enough penalty.

EDIT: I tried railguns again and here are some screenshots

Direct hit

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Natural ricochet

image
20160630135922_1.jpg1366×768 183 KB

[details=Pillar doesn’t allow natural ricochet]

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[/details]

[details=Damage penalty from CE]
[/details]

Jakobs Cannons were also said to be immune to the penalty. However, when I fired a Cannon at the pillar, it would always miss and never hit the target. This could suggest that Close Enough doesn’t work on it in the first place

The only exception was the ricochet Fibber, where the eight unlisted pellets seemed to do full damage. However, the original bullet would still only deal half damage.

I’m not an experienced tester by any means. So this is more of a “This is weird, what’s going on here?”

Why is Make It Sparkle with Sharing is Caring so broken?
#2

Don’t bullets do reduced damage after ricochet anyway? I guess you could test the same weapon on a different character to check.

#3

I usually don’t spec into Close Enough, let’s see…

My Trick Shot Rex (it’s a trophy) does 633k on a regular hit and 633k when ricocheting off the floor, no points are invested in CE

#4

It was actually Kaliber’s that pokashine did most of the work on the original as it was a mess.
All Anderson did was port it. Give credit to where credit is do.

There was a thread about CE a while back I don’t remember who did it, I think it was Shrimpling or wingsday but probably someone else.

I’ll look for it and test it if I can’t find it.

I was never a Gaige expert.

Some weapons would get reduced and others wouldn’t from what I remember.

#5

Apologies. I do not have a link to the original data.
Edited the OP for clarity

#6

Just say kaliber, because I don’t remember everyone who did things. I know Poka was the most vocal.

Yeah cannons don’t work with CE, a lot of the testing was done improperly and was never updated on the top gear ones.

I was working on one but someone else did it and I chalked it up as good enough.

#7

The last one I could find on these forums was this one:

I do remember Wingsday and others (Poka?) getting into a discussion of it in another context and referring to the earlier work, but I haven’t find any links on it.

Edit: There’s this: http://oldforums.gearboxsoftware.com/oldforums/20150308231524/http://oldforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=385608

Looks like the discussion in the “New top gear thread” got chopped at page 1 in the archive, so unless someone wants to go trawling through the Internet Archive, looks like the discussion is not available.

#8

I don’t think it was ever ported over.
A lot of the gaige stuff was lost because of the people who did all the gaige stuff who didn’t like the new forums and decided to stay away.

It’s something I can start redoing this weekend.
It’ll take a few days to complete probably because I have to test everything.
I’d rather not steal someones work and claim it as my own since people do it all the time to my work.

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#9

The Wanderlust rounds do not appear to be affected by Close Enough. When you first fire the gun, they fly where they will for about one second. During this time, they may bounce off a wall, floor, whatever, and it doesn’t really make a difference: wherever they are at this one second mark will determine what they “see” and then pursue. If the round flies straight up and forward, it will acquire targets in front of you. If a round bounces off a wall and flies behind you, it will acquire targets behind you that you don’t even see.

If you have Close Enough on, and one of these rounds bounces off a surface (either prior to or after the moment of acquisition), it won’t take the reduced damage.

#10

The homing is from the Wanderlust’s own special effect, right? Maybe since E-tech pistols are pure splash like Jakobs cannons, CE never kicks in at all, and the homing comes from just from Wanderlust/Dart/neo-eridian magic

#11

It’s a bit more complex than that.

I tracked 8+ types of splash damage during my splash testing.

The 3 main criteria were Grenade damage, Blood Bath, Reaper.

Reaper was the easiest to track, Blood Bath and Grenade damage weren’t.
I never tested CE but I’ll get that done.

The most interesting was bandit plasma casters.

#12

[quote=“sparkofleaves, post:10, topic:1539301”]The homing is from the Wanderlust’s own special effect, right?[/quote]Yes - it just doesn’t take damage reduction from Close Enough if the darts happen to bounce off a surface.

[quote=“Blutfatal, post:11, topic:1539301”]The 3 main criteria were Grenade damage, Blood Bath, Reaper.[/quote]I don’t think the Wanderlust benefits from Reaper nor grenade damage buffs (not sure about Blood Bath). :slight_frown:

[quote=“Blutfatal, post:11, topic:1539301”]The most interesting was bandit plasma casters.[/quote]Do tell

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#13

It has no splash

#14

With CE my understanding was that it only works on a bullet and not a 100% pure splash gun such as a cannon or E-tech pistol. Would this be incorrect?

#15

Thats what we think currently but not all etechs are pure splash.

#16

[quote=“Blutfatal, post:13, topic:1539301, full:true”]It has no splash[/quote]Bandit e-tech SMGs?

#17

yeah.

#18

I think it does: specifically, the rounds splash randomly along their drunk flight path (sometimes once, sometimes several times). Because you can’t rely on this splash triggering on a direct hit, you need to luck into it happening close enough to an enemy (but not so close that it’ll be a direct hit) for them to take splash damage.

In combat, I use this more like an area of effect hose… there seems to be a sweet spot at what I would consider between the far end of “close” range and the close end of “mid” range, where enemies being washed by spray from this SMG take a surprising amount of damage, and I think it’s just the average amount of splash happening randomly in their vicinity (it’s hard to see with all the projectiles flopping around).

Anyone down to confirm? It’s been working for me in combat for a long time, but maybe there’s some other mechanic at play there. You can see the random splashes along the flight path as, well, a splash with an invisible center. If you try it on the target dummy, aim at the corner of his board where direct hits won’t hit him. The shots should bounce back off it without hitting him (no splash), but occasionally it will splash, and hit him without being a direct hit.

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