Understanding- Smaller Lighter Faster and the effects of Reload

Note: This was originally written by MAIXX74ps3 and was ported over here from the old forums to prevent it from falling into the ether. All math is courtesy of him, I only updated the formatting.

Smaller, Lighter, Faster is one of Gaige’s Tier One Ordered Chaos skills, and one of two skills which are mandatory to reach Tier Two. This skill shrinks the magazines of Gaige’s weapons, meaning faster reloading, but fewer bullets.

Effects:

Each rank in this skill improves Gaige’s Reload Speed by 6%, but subtracts 1% from her Magazine Size. The detriment can easily outweigh the net benefit of the skill, as the skill will only subtract whole numbers from a magazine count. The game will determine the size of a magazine by rounding down the net magazine size to the nearest whole number. For example, a Jakobs shotgun with a 1-shot magazine becomes unfirable after investing into the skill, as the true magazine size after putting one point into this skill will become 0.99, becoming 0 shots per magazine. This skill, as such, more heavily affects weapons with smaller magazines than larger magazines.

Level/Reload Speed/Mag Size: 1 +6%/-1%, 4 +24%/-4%. With class mods*, they become: 5 +30%/-5%, 11 +60%/-10%.

*Can only be leveled past 4 with Jill of All Trades, Punk, Legendary Anarchist, and Legendary Mechromancer class mods.

(Above Info taken from: Borderlands WIKI page)


Sounds simple right?..... Not Really....

First you need to understand DPS, or Damage Per Second. This is getting as much damage down range as fast as possible. Basic DPS = Weapon Damage multiplied by Fire Rate. BUT… this does not account for down time while reloading. So another measurement is necessary, DPS/10 or Damage Per Second over 10 seconds. This factors in Weapon Damage, Fire rate, Mag size, and Reload time.

Smaller Lighter Faster alters 1/2 of these variables. The following examples are based on the fixed variables for each weapon, the only thing that changes with each level is the damage and weapon damage is actually irrelevant at this point, these following equations are the “fire rate” half of the basic DPS formula.


I did the math for the following 5 weapons to show how much Smaller, Lighter, Faster increases DPS (or decreases with the Norfleet).

I chose to do the Lady Fist over the Fibber because they are both Hyperion and have similar base stats, but there is no accurate weapon card for the Fibber to get the numbers from.

Jacobs weapons like the Twister and Hydra have a “as fast as you can pull the trigger” fire rate, this is an incalculable variable. There is no way to calculate an accurate DPS/10 for these.

Math & terms:
“Dps/10” = Damage Per Second over 10 seconds
“Empty Mag” = Time it takes to empty the Mag (mag ÷ fire rate)
"Full Cycle " = Time it takes to empty the mag and then reload

Conference Call: Practable, Hyperion grip -
Mag: 10 @4 = 9 @9= 9
Fire rate: 4.3
Reload: 2.7 @4 = 2.2 @9= 1.73

Empty mag: 10 mag = 2.32 , 9 mag =2.09 seconds
Full Cycle: 5.02 @4= 4.29 @9= 3.82

(10 seconds ÷ full cycle) x Mag = Rounds fired over 10 seconds
10 ÷ 5.02 = 1.992 × 10 = 19.92
10 ÷ 4.29 = 2.331 x 9 = 20.98
10 ÷ 3.82 = 2.617 x 9 = (23.56 Multiply this # by the weapons damage for base DPS/10)

Dps/10 increase: @4 =5.3% @9 = 18.3%


Pimpernel: Gentlemans Malawian Grip
Mag: 10 @4= 9 @9= 9
Fire Rate: 1.4
Reload: 3.1 @4 = 2.5, @9 = 2.0

Empty mag: 10 mag = 7.14, 9 Mag = 6.42
Full Cycle: 10.24 @4= 8.92, @9= 8.42

(10 seconds ÷ full cycle) x Mag = Rounds fired over 10 seconds
10 ÷ 10.24 = 0.976 x 10 = 9.76
10 ÷ 8.92 = 1.121 x 9 = 10.08
10 ÷ 8.42 = 1.187 x 9 = (10.68 Multiply this # by the weapons damage for base DPS/10)

Dps/10 increase: @4= 3.3%, @9= 9.4%


Lady Fist: Redundant Hyperion grip
Mag: 39(20), @4= 37(19), @9= 35(18) (##) = number of shots
Fire rate: 3.8
Reload: 1.5, @4= 1.21, @9= 0.96

Empty Mag: 20 = 5.26, 19 = 5.00, 18 = 4.73
Full Cycle: 6.76, @4= 6.21, @9= 5.69

(10 seconds ÷ full cycle) x Mag = Rounds fired over 10 seconds
10 ÷ 6.76 = 1.479 x 20 = 29.58 (x2 59.16)
10 ÷ 6.21 = 1.610 x 19 = 30.59 (x2 61.18)
10 ÷ 5.69 = 1.757 x 18 = 31.63 (x2 63.24 Multiply this # by the weapons damage for base DPS/10)

Dps/10 increase: @4= 3.4%, @9= 6.9%


Hail: Rabid, Vladof Grip
Mag: 37, @4= 35, @9= 33
Fire rate: 10.8
Reload: 2.7, @4= 2.18, @9= 1.73

Empty Mag: 37 = 3.42, 35 = 3.24, 33 = 3.05
Full Cycle: 6.12, @4= 5.42, @9= 4.78

(10 seconds ÷ full cycle) x Mag = Rounds fired over 10 seconds
10 ÷ 6.12 = 1.633 x 37 = 60.42
10 ÷ 5.42 = 1.845 x 35 = 64.58
10 ÷ 4.78 = 2.092 x 33 = (69.04 Multiply this # by the weapons damage for base DPS/10)

Dps/10 increase: @4= 6.8%, @9= 14.3%


Effects on the Class Mods you might choose (Links not ported over because they’re no longer available).
Legendary Mechromancer & Anarchist
Chaotic Good Necromancer (CGN)
Chaotic Neutral Necromancer (CNN)
Prodigy
Punk

These numbers are theoretical, the are altered by the FPS and memory limitations of your system, the fact that weapon cards are inaccurate, and reload animation caps. But these numbers can show you how the skills, and bonuses should interact with different weapons.

The following percentages are increases to DPS/10 based on how they alter reload, Mag size and Fire rate.
These numbers do not include any modifiers that alter the Weapon Damage stat itself, such as “Weapon Damage #%” (Legendary Anarchist) or bonuses to WDT (CGN & CNN).

Conference Call: Practable, Hyperion grip -
4/4 in SLF alone: 5.3%
Legendary Mechromancer 36.49%
Legendary Anarchist 30.17%++
Op8 Chaotic Good Necromancer (35% Reload/ 35% Fire Rate) 55.67%++**
Op8 Chaotic Neutral (+54% mag/ +35% Fire Rate) 68.97%++**
Op8 Prodigy (+32% Accuracy/ +38% Reload, +6 BH) 42.99%**
OP8 Punk (30% Fire Rate, -30% Mag +6 BH, +5 SLF) 17.21%

Pimpernel: Gentlemans Malawian Grip
4/4 in SLF alone: 3.3%
Legendary Mechromancer 34.22%
Legendary Anarchist 25.30%++
Op8 Chaotic Good Necromancer (35% Reload/ 35% Fire Rate) 44.05%++**
Op8 Chaotic Neutral (+54% mag/ +35% Fire Rate) 68.54%++**
Op8 Prodigy (+32% Accuracy/ +38% Reload, +6 BH) 39.08%**
OP8 Punk (30% Fire Rate, -30% Mag +6 BH, +5 SLF) 40.02%

Lady Fist: Redundant Hyperion grip (Fibber stand in)
4/4 in SLF alone: 3.4%
Legendary Mechromancer 37.99%
Legendary Anarchist 25.25%++
Op8 Chaotic Good Necromancer (35% Reload/ 35% Fire Rate) 62.20%++**
Op8 Chaotic Neutral (+54% mag/ +35% Fire Rate) 69.60%++**
Op8 Prodigy (+32% Accuracy/ +38% Reload, +6 BH) 41.80%**
OP8 Punk (30% Fire Rate, -30% Mag +6 BH, +5 SLF) 49.69%

Hail: Rabid, Vladof Grip
4/4 in SLF alone: 6.8%
Legendary Mechromancer 38.63%
Legendary Anarchist 27.32%++
Op8 Chaotic Good Necromancer (35% Reload/ 35% Fire Rate) 55.72%++**
Op8 Chaotic Neutral (+54% mag/ +35% Fire Rate) 75.23%++**
Op8 Prodigy (+32% Accuracy/ +38% Reload, +6 BH) 47.78%**
OP8 Punk (30% Fire Rate, -30% Mag +6 BH, +5 SLF) 26.87%

++ Mod includes a weapon damage modifier not calculated in the “True Rate” modifier.
** Mod has tested out with different stats then listed on the item card.Test 1 CGN, Test 2 CGN/Prodigy, Test CNN, Precedent of Bad item cards, CGN w/ tested stats, CNN w/ Tested stats

***Thanks to neff_wp for helping to work out the math and for testing the Equation as it applies to In-game items.


Final thoughts

The math seems to show a decent dps increase, but this applies to longer fights. This skill won’t do much for simple mobbing, where your killing things within a mag. But fighting BA and boss type encounters is where this will shine.

For many this skill is just a necessity to unlock teir 2 and up in the OC tree, but when looking at the math, it can give a decent bonus to dps for a Teir 1 skill, especially when combined with other reload, Mag size, and Fire rate bonuses.

2 Likes

Wait, does that mean all of the old articles will no longer be accessible at some point in time?

1 Like

Possibly. Currently we can only access the front page and the first page of any post, so we don’t know if those old threads will stick around.

1 Like

I believe the original intention was that they would be a permanent archive. The main problem right now, as @Gulfwulf noted, is that the process to convert the old forums to static pages didn’t capture all the pages for any given thread/topic. As a result, some interesting info is no longer accessible, even using the URL work-around.

1 Like

That’s very unfortunate :frowning:

1 Like

I’ll be porting more threads over in the coming weeks, but not for awhile because this one gave me a headache just looking at it. :dukecensor:

1 Like

ALL THE MATHS!!! lol

1 Like

/whistles innocently

2 Likes

It’s the fact we don’t have a color button here like most modern forums do. Being able to just select text and pick a color would make this stuff so much easier. :dukeangry:

4 Likes

I agree with you; sorting out the HTML/CSS can be incredibly time-consuming. That said, I wouldn’t have given you this thread to port over if I didn’t think you’d do a decent job of it. So, thank you.

2 Likes

image

I’ll get to the others when I can.

2 Likes

I don’t mind helping out if there’s something you think might be useful.

1 Like

Is neff still working on his or should I go ahead and port it over?

1 Like

[quote=“VaultHunter101, post:12, topic:1042411”]I don’t mind helping out if there’s something you think might be useful.[/quote]Do you mean with helping out with this thread in particular, or are you offering to help transfer some over? If the latter, drop me a PM; the eventual plan is to have every resource thread dedicated to Gaige here on the new forums and any and all help would be fantastic.

[quote=“Gulfwulf, post:13, topic:1042411, full:true”]Is neff still working on his or should I go ahead and port it over?[/quote]I have to give complete credit to Neff; he made the port within a day, so don’t worry about the DT thread! I’d say make teks’ run-down on the COMs next, if you’re still alright with doing that.

1 Like

I’m planning on it in the next few days.

1 Like

Excellent. Look forward to it!

1 Like

I am no longer working on this thread.But I know much of it.
In really,I want to help this thread,but some problem(Time , English and so on…) are fence for me.

When my pc crashed , unfortunately,all testdata(by video) and excel sheet had been lost.
So , As for actual test(by recording video and checking it again), I need a little time.
As for theorical data (by math fomula) , I will not need time so much , I think.

However,I am very busy for work(just now for two weeks running). :dizzy_face:
If I have motivation and time, i will post anything to this thread.
Please wait without expecting…

1 Like